So it looks like the possible official announcement of this camera(s) will be happening this coming Monday, February 8th in the UK at the British Academy of Film and Television Arts (BAFTA).

New Canon camera to be launched on 8 February - Pocket-lint

Are we excited yet or what? :)

I'll take the day off and get a bag of chips for the announcement.

That sounds more like it will be an announcement for a new DSLR with HD video capabilities.

A vDSLR with 4:2:2 50Mb/s Mpeg2.... that would be extremely interesting. Ahh the rumor mill at work.

Canon is going to make a camcorder that records 4:2:2 with MPEG-2 compression. That much we know. That doesn't mean they won't introduce more DSLRs with video capabilities, or that their new DSLRs will record 4:2:2 MPEG-2 encoded video (doesn't seem real likely). It is actually possible (more like incredibly likely) that Canon will introduce BOTH a camcorder and a new still cam in the same year! Remember, this is a pretty conservative company, so don't hold your breath waiting for them to make a camera that's an utterly huge departure from conventional. Sometimes speculation gets a bit carried away...

Chris

"Take a look at the photos in my article... "

I did, but that eyepiece looks a bit harsh to me, though i'm sure it's great for folks with square eyes. Meanwhile the body has the chain-saw look we've come to associate with the pricier XLHI changeable lens model.

Are these pictures supposed to be of the A1 update or the H1 update?

This is the XH replacement -- the XL will follow (we haven't seen it yet).

The latest version of the invite I've seen says "We are pleased to invite you to a Canon Consumer Imaging Event."

Does that sound like the announcement of a professional camcorder? If this was Sony I'd say no, as they wouldn't classify the camera(s) we've been discussing as a "consumer" camera, but I don't know if Canon has a "professional" imaging division.

Might this be the new Rebel and/or 60D?

I think what has people on the edge of their seat is that Vincent mentioned in the other thread to wait after the 8th and all will be revealed. This invite linked is on the 8th and immediately many think it's this event where the camera will be revealed. I heard from two people it can be a 4K projector so who knows till then.

Their video division falls under their Consumer Imaging Group.

In any case, the Final Cut Pro SuperMeet event is today and we'll know about this camera by tonight as Canon is showing the first US unveiling of it there.

I hope my electricity doesn't go out here in Baltimore with the snow storm we are about to get. I'd love to be updated tonight on this new camera.

Looks like another example of Canon video cameras moving up in the world. 50Mbps 4:2:2 is a similar step up from HDV, in terms of quality and complexity, as HDV was from DV. However, I fear that it may be above my budget and computer-power. Also, it makes the gap between the Vixia/HV40 and the "pro" line even bigger.

Is it too much to hope for a camera about the size of an XM1/VX2000 that squeezes the best resolution possible out of 20-25 Mbps codecs? I know Canon could do it, but I wonder if they think they can make money from such a camera?

Hello Mark,

From my experience with the Nanoflash, 50mbps 4:2:2 is not a system strain at all, especially if it is full raster, (square pixles).

Will post photos from tonight as soon as I can, however there may be a bar or two in between me and the computer.

however there may be a bar or two in between me and the computer.
 

Good for you Chris. So we may have to wait until Monday.

Looks like i'm going to have to get drunk all weekend.

Have a great time tonight, Chris. If you get the chance, please ask them about my "HD-XM1" - Cheers!

A higher bitrate doesn't create more computations for the CPU (and HDDs can easily maintain thruput at way over 50Mbps). Editing the 50Mbps MPEG-2 out of this new Canon won't be any tougher for you than editing HDV out of an HV40.

As far as squeezing best image quality (assuming that's what you mean by resolution) out of a codec at 20-25Mbps, that would be AVCHD. No need to hope. Such cams already exist. Panasonic and now Sony make prosumer AVCHD cams that are similar in sizes to the XM1 and VX2000 (both in terms of chassis sizes and imaging chip sizes). The HMC150 doesn't shoot anything akin to "best resolution possible" (fairly low resolution imaging chips for an HD cam) but does shoot a very nice image otherwise. The HMC40 shoots a very high resolution image, and the new Sony AVCHD cams should as well. AVCHD is a lot tougher on CPUs, for editing purposes, though.

It's as Robert says - 50Mbs MPEG2 should cause far fewer computer issues than going to AVC-HD. That's as true in the camera as the NLE, AVC-HD requires far more power to code than MPEG2, certainly to do it well and get significant bitrate savings and here power can mean both in the computing sense and the no of watts.

At one time, a move to AVC-HD was seen as the only way to be able to get HDV or better quality onto solid state media that cost less than P2 or SxS. That was proved untrue firstly when SDHC cards were used in the EX, then the JVC cameras using SDHC natively for the 35Mbs codec. The only advantage of going to AVC-HD is that a lower bitrate will mean more recorded minutes per GB, but with the price of consumer memory what it is I don't think it's worth it. (At least at the prosumer level, consumer cameras are a different matter.) Unless the spec is rewritten and extended, there is no form of AVC-HD that will support 4:2:2.

What the marketing people will do is another thing again. They may only put the 50Mbs codec into the higher end models, but theoretically there is no reason why it shouldn't be fairly cheap to implement into fairly low end models.

We don't know what media Canon's cam will record onto yet. Hopefully it will be something standard (not proprietary, like P2 or SxS). Class-6 SDHC won't cut it for recording at 50Mbps though. My guess is that it will be SDXC that works okay with "class-10" SDHC cards (which are at least reasonably affordable nowadays - not several hundreds of dollars for just a 16GB card, like with P2).

Class 6 SDHC should record basic 50Mbs with few problems - issues may come if used for any overcranking, though. The limitations on the EX are more to do with the adaptor and interface than basic card speed, but even allowing for those it will still allow a limited degree of overcranking (so faster than 35Mbs recording). If used in a device specifically designed for it's use, class 6 SDHC should work fine. Maybe a recommendation of class 6 for normal speed, class 10 for overcrank?

My own preference would be for Compact Flash, and even a fairly basic form such as Sandisk Extreme III should work with full 60fps overcrank to 50Mbs. (2.5x speed, and hence datarate, so recording at 125Mbs.) See the recommendations from Convergent Design regarding CF with the nanoFlash - http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/converge...rd-matrix.html - they rate Extreme III at 180Mbs, which gives a nearly 50% safety margin, even for full overcrank.

But we'll soon see what it actually takes!

Class-6 is fine for recording at 35Mbps, but not at 50Mbps.

The core requirement for class-6 (SDHC cards) is the ability to sustain write speeds of 6MBs. 6MBs (six megabytes per second) is 48Mbps (forty eight megabits per second), which is not quite (by spec) assurance of reliable sustained writing at a speed of 50Mbps. If an SDHC card that precisely meets (without exceeding) the class-6 spec were used, there would be recording failures (with absolute certainty) trying to write to the card at 50Mbps.

Also, it's never good to cut really close to specs anyway. In otherwords, even if the camera recorded MPEG-2 at say 46Mbps, that would be uncomfortably close to the class-6 spec, and recording with borderline cards would assuredly be problematic (and a lot of class-6 SDHC cards out there are indeed borderline, or just plain do not quite cut it technically for meeting the spec).

That said, class-10 cards (while not officially an SDHC spec) should work fine, and are available nowadays.

Chris...We love ya man!!!!

Point taken, though my understanding of the class rating (unlike the older speed ratings) is that they represent absolute minimums which the product should reach, and not "typical" speeds. Hence the vast majority of class 6 should be better than that minimum, and well within spec for 50Mbs - which is what the results shown up in EX tests seem to indicate. But I suppose if I was selling the camera and was answerable .......... :-) So maybe class 10 it had better be......

I still favour Compact Flash. It's more rugged than SD, and the de facto standard for professional stills photographers. The smaller the device, the more suitable SDHC may be, but for a camera of this size that shouldn't be a problem, any more than it has been in most DSLRs.

This joint's jumpin'! Lots of people here. Some news: Canon USA says the press release for this camera will not be issued until NAB.

Also -- tune into http://www.supermeet.com/live for the realtime webcast (I think I got that URL right... no, I have not had any cocktails yet).

That would be a lot uglier to implement, than simply going with SDXC, and making sure to be compatible with SDHC (FAT 32) to assure that there is reasonably affordable media ("class-10" SDHC) that indeed works in the mean time, until SDXC cards are commonplace (which shouldn't be all that far in the future really).

A RAID approach to recording with flash memory would require more than simply sticking the card in a card reader (after recording with the camcorder), to copy the footage to computer (or edit directly from the card). It could be made to work, but there's really no reason to strap customers with that sort of hassle.

If Canon does go with SDXC, having two slots could make for a nice simple approach to redundant recording too (if they design it that way). SDXC capacities will eventually be utterly huge (way beyond 32GB - the spec allows up to 2 terabyte capacities, which is well into days of continuous recording time at 50Mbps), so the need to span recordings across cards would wind up being minimized more and more as SDXC card capacities increase, and eventually essentially entirely eliminated.

talk about a tease. VERY little info released on the camera from Canon tonight at Supermeet SF. if you aren't going to announce it, don't bother even saying anything. IMHO Perhaps those at the event will get more detailed info tonight. I am sure Chris is gonna grill the Canon guys.

Confirmed: one-third inch.

Turns out they said nothing that hasn't already been said: Talked about the EOS Final Cut Pro plug-in, which they said would be "available soon" and also talked about the 4:2:2 codec.

Finally, hinted at a new camera that will "have amazing picture quality at an amazing price!" They have a prototype of a camera "under-glass" at the event, though that they didn't show during the presentation. No model number etc. He did say it has 1/3" sensors, and the prototype they were showing has a fixed lens (subtle hint that there would be one with interchangeable lenses.)

He didn't even hint that there would be an announcement shortly, which makes me jump to the big conclusion that next weeks event will NOT be an announcement of one of these cameras.

During the SuperMeet, they highlighted Edius and Avid as being ready for the new codec - which possibly suggests they are targeting the broadcast market with their new camera.

But Bogacz didn't put out any real solid info on the camera except that it's 1/3" and solid state.

To my knowledge, Avid and Edius are the only two NLEs that can cut XDCam/XDCamEX without an import. This does more to suggest to me that the camera is using an XDCam variant and will be recognized as such by NLEs. That is a VERY good thing.

Perrone,

Avid also edits nanoFlash files natively, which are MPEG-2. But XDCAM is also MPEG-2, so you are correct that whatever format Cannon uses could be called a variant of XDCAM.

But I think it's more accurate just to call it some form of Long-GOP HD MPEG-2.

The Nano is using XDCam. In fact, it's using the same encoding chip from Sony, just at a higher bit rate. That is why it's seen as XDCam in the NLEs. If Canon have done the same thing (which is my guess) then it really is XDCam.

Did they confirmed CCD or CMOS by chance?

That could be taken a couple different ways.

Evil
 

1/3" CMOS would be evil. With Sony doing 1/2", that would be kinda sad. I think Canon is pretty set on CCD. But who knows, I'm surprised Canon is this late to the solid state party.

Didn't say, I don't think.

CCD would make this a EX killer when it comes to matchmoving and flash banding. Global Shutters and 1920x1080 at sub 10K would kill the EX (and even the HPX300 with the horrid long focal length skewing).

As if there aren't already numerous 1/3" ccd cameras on the market... None of them seem to be killing the EX1. Nor will this Canon.

Perhaps in the Wedding video market, but certainly not for broadcast uses, doesn't matter about the codec 1/3 inch doesn't cut it for broadcast HD