New camera for film

[Marcel D. Van Someren]

It just means that it doesn't have native 1280x720P recording. Most of the stuff that I post is 720p. I just do it in post as opposed to in camera.

Yeah, the HVX is a good option. It's native resolution isn't as high as the A1 but it's color depth is better. The big problem is the cost of the P2 cards.

[David Evans]

I've been watching some amazing footage taken with the A1. Check this clip out:

YouTube - Quick test with XH A1 and SgPro on Floatcam stedycam

Do you think this was shot with the native A1 lens (apart from the 35mm adapter)? It looks amazing, but of course it also had plenty of post work. I don't have a Mac, but I suppose Adobe Premiere can also get this kind of results, right? What do you think of that video?

Thanks

David

[Mark Fry]

Speaking personally, I wouldn't consider the Panasonic HVX200. P2 cards are very expensive and very limiting, and the camera only really does 720, as far as I can tell, not 1080, though it is supposed to do it rather well. If you like Panasonic models, try an HMC151, which uses SDHC cards (I think) and the AVCHD codec. A second-hand EX1 may be a better proposition, especially with the SDHC adapter that allows you to use SDHC media. The 1/2" CMOS chips will give you a little better control of DOF, too. Even so, it's likely to cost 50% - 70% more than a new XH-A1s.

£2200 - £2300 is the going rate for an XH-A1s, but you might be able to get the older XH-A1 for under £2000. Again speaking personally, I think the new "s" model is worth the extra. Mind you, the way business is at the moment, if you go into a London dealer with £2000 in cash in your hand (or the equivalent in Euros) and ask for an XH-A1s, you are not likely to be turned away.

HTH

[Marcel D. Van Someren]

Originally Posted by David Evans

I've been watching some amazing footage taken with the A1. Check this clip out:

YouTube - Quick test with XH A1 and SgPro on Floatcam stedycam

Do you think this was shot with the native A1 lens (apart from the 35mm adapter)? It looks amazing, but of course it also had plenty of post work. I don't have a Mac, but I suppose Adobe Premiere can also get this kind of results, right? What do you think of that video?

Thanks

David

That was shot with the SGPro 35mm adapter (the predicessor of the SGBlade). You can't change the lens on the A1 so technically its the native lens with and adapter and then some other brand of SLR lens, most likely.

I think they went a little overboard on the shallow DOF but the quality on you tube isnt very good so it's hard to tell. A lot of people like the look of the SGPro bokeh (me included) and you can get the same look with the SGBlade and the RotoRazor2 GG.

I've used Adobe Premier, Edius Pro, Avid, Vegas 8, and SpeedEdit. They all have tools to do color correction, etc. You just have to learn how to use the tools and as some modicum of artistic talent to know when something looks good or not.

I like the EX1 as well, along with the larger sensor. My only concern is that the chip is CMOS and it uses rolling shutter so you do have the potential of getting "jello" video when doing fast pans, etc.

[Tom Hardwick]

Originally Posted by David Evans

My interest in this new camera has NOTHING to do with video look or television standards. My only interest in buying a new (HD?) camera is to make movies with a film look, something that creates the ilusion of cinema and makes people believe the images and get lost in the movie.David

First thing I'd say is that anything that detracts from reality will reduce the audience's ability to 'believe the images and get lost in the movie'. So going for the film look may be your objective, but following in the footsteps of the accountants who set up a 24p shoot and 48p play all those years ago isn't the answer.

Those rates were chosen as the bare minimum for cost reasons, and even so the screen brightness had to be carefully limited because of visible flicker. I'm sure this won't answer your objective, even though it'll give you 'movies with a film look'.

tom.

[David Evans]

Originally Posted by Marcel D. Van Someren

That was shot with the SGPro 35mm adapter (the predicessor of the SGBlade). You can't change the lens on the A1 so technically its the native lens with and adapter and then some other brand of SLR lens, most likely.

I think they went a little overboard on the shallow DOF but the quality on you tube isnt very good so it's hard to tell. A lot of people like the look of the SGPro bokeh (me included) and you can get the same look with the SGBlade and the RotoRazor2 GG.

I've used Adobe Premier, Edius Pro, Avid, Vegas 8, and SpeedEdit. They all have tools to do color correction, etc. You just have to learn how to use the tools and as some modicum of artistic talent to know when something looks good or not.

I like the EX1 as well, along with the larger sensor. My only concern is that the chip is CMOS and it uses rolling shutter so you do have the potential of getting "jello" video when doing fast pans, etc.

Hi,

I notice they had a lot of DOF on that video. How do you overdo it? Excuse me for my ignorance, but I never really used a 35mm adapter, does it have a way to control how shallow you get the DOF? Oh, and one more thing, from what I've read, it makes the image go upside down right? How do you overcome that?

Thanks

David

[Marcel D. Van Someren]

You can manipulate the DOF with your choice of lens focal length (i.e., 100mm as opposed to 50mm, etc.), spacing of subject from the background / subject from the camera, and the fstop you chose to use. One thing you need to understand, if you get an adapter, is don't expect to hook it up and get the shots you want right out of the box. It takes lots of practice. For that matter, so does the A1. It's by no means a point and shoot camera.

As far as the upside down image goes, there are a number of solutions:

1) Many adapter makers offer a "flip" module for an additional cost. This flips the image right-side-up so the camera records it right-side-up.

You can get flip modules for the SGBlade, Redrock M2, Brevis MP.1. The Letus Extreme has it built in. The Letus is a vibrating adapter. They do make a spinning adapter called the ultimate but it costs as much as the A1.


2) Use an external monitor that is flipped upside down and use that for framing and focusing your shots. By the way, you'll likely want an external monitor anyway because even upside down, focusing can be a challenge with shallow DOF. Once you load your footage into your NLE, you flip it there and then edit it.

3) Learn to shoot with your image upside down and then flip it in your NLE like in option 2.

With my DIY adapter, I've actually gotten pretty good shooting upside down :)


Oh, I ran accross this Trailer shot with the A1 and the Brevis adapter. I think it's a pretty good example of at least one kind of film look you can get with this camera and an adapter:

www.cinevate.com/images/mantoman.wmv

[David Evans]

Originally Posted by Marcel D. Van Someren

You can manipulate the DOF with your choice of lens focal length (i.e., 100mm as opposed to 50mm, etc.), spacing of subject from the background / subject from the camera, and the fstop you chose to use. One thing you need to understand, if you get an adapter, is don't expect to hook it up and get the shots you want right out of the box. It takes lots of practice. For that matter, so does the A1. It's by no means a point and shoot camera.

As far as the upside down image goes, there are a number of solutions:

1) Many adapter makers offer a "flip" module for an additional cost. This flips the image right-side-up so the camera records it right-side-up.

You can get flip modules for the SGBlade, Redrock M2, Brevis MP.1. The Letus Extreme has it built in. The Letus is a vibrating adapter. They do make a spinning adapter called the ultimate but it costs as much as the A1.


2) Use an external monitor that is flipped upside down and use that for framing and focusing your shots. By the way, you'll likely want an external monitor anyway because even upside down, focusing can be a challenge with shallow DOF. Once you load your footage into your NLE, you flip it there and then edit it.

3) Learn to shoot with your image upside down and then flip it in your NLE like in option 2.

With my DIY adapter, I've actually gotten pretty good shooting upside down :)


Oh, I ran accross this Trailer shot with the A1 and the Brevis adapter. I think it's a pretty good example of at least one kind of film look you can get with this camera and an adapter:

www.cinevate.com/images/mantoman.wmv

This video looks like a movie. I can't tell the difference, it definitly has that film look. How much post work do you think it took? I can't begin to imagine, or maybe a preset loaded to the camera can help achieve this?

Thanks

David

[Marcel D. Van Someren]

Originally Posted by David Evans

This video looks like a movie. I can't tell the difference, it definitly has that film look. How much post work do you think it took? I can't begin to imagine, or maybe a preset loaded to the camera can help achieve this?

Thanks

David

I'm sure there was some color correction, but I think lighting, framing, camera movements, editing had much more effect on the look...of course the adapter helped a lot with the DOF.

It just proves that it can be done with the A1 and of course lots of talent.

[Marcel D. Van Someren]

David,

here's another "film" shot with the A1, this time with the Letus Extreme adapter:

Une Autre Nuit (Another Night) on Vimeo

It has a nice cinematic feel...

[David Evans]

Originally Posted by Marcel D. Van Someren

David,

here's another "film" shot with the A1, this time with the Letus Extreme adapter:

Une Autre Nuit (Another Night) on Vimeo

It has a nice cinematic feel...

Amazing stuff. Unbelievable what you can do with a prosumer camera. I was thinking of the most important things I need to buy when I go to London. I was thinking, of course the A1, as well as the SGBlade (SGblade emailed me and told me that the SGblade with ROTOrazor 1 only looses about half stop of light, but I'm opened to other suggestions), a SteadyCam (wich one?), a tripod and probably new batteries and tapes.

Watching that video I also saw some travelings the camera does at the begining inside the gas station. What can be used for that?

Thanks

David

[Marcel D. Van Someren]

I read the thread on that short. The guy who made it is only 17 years old. The camera movements were made by a home-made crane and dolly. He used all natural lighting. Pretty amazing.

[Richard Gooderick]

Originally Posted by David Evans

a SteadyCam (wich one?)

The Steadicam Merlin works well with the XH A1.

[David Evans]

Originally Posted by Richard Gooderick

The Steadicam Merlin works well with the XH A1.

Wow, I've checked the price on that one and it's about $900, is this correct? Is there any cheaper option with good quality? I'm not sure I'm ready to give that kind of money for a steady cam...

[Jim Duggins]

Originally Posted by David Evans

Wow, I've checked the price on that one and it's about $900, is this correct? Is there any cheaper option with good quality? I'm not sure I'm ready to give that kind of money for a steady cam...

Well, for $85 USD you can get a SpiderBrace 2. It's no Merlin but it does a bang-up job for what it is and what it costs. I never leave home without it. ;-)

There's also something called the StabilizerFlex for not too much more $: http://www.stabilizerflex.com/

I want to buy one of these if they ever get back in stock...