XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Guys, I've shot dozens of weddings, industrial videos, school projects, stage plays and sports events with my pair of XH-A1 cameras over the last four years.

With the proper settings and a knowledgeable and attentive operator, these cameras have delivered *incredibly* beautiful video -- even in the low-light conditions of wedding receptions.

They're solid, ergonomically efficient, and I love the 3-ring zoom lens and external buttons.

My only gripes were that they were MiniDV-based and I couldn't get uncompressed HD out of them.

Ok... to the point of this post...

Sadly, I sold both cameras a few months ago to raise funds; and now I'd like to "get back into the game."

My question: who makes an XH-A1 camera that's flash-media based, uses a 3-chip CCD design, has all the same ergonomic features, can output uncompressed HD signals and is as good as -- or better -- in low light (ie: the 3CCD design)? Oh, yeah, for under $3,000 (since a new XH-A1s is about $2,700, and I imagine I could buy an add-on flash recorder for several hundred more -- something I've thought about doing, but would rather not).

Does such a camera exist? I've been scouring this forum for comparos, but haven't found anything conclusive (probably because my criteria are so specific).

Thoughts? Bueller? Bueller??

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

I'm not Bueller -- I think he skipped school today.

The camera you want is the Canon XF300 or XF305. See the accompanying forum that we have for it.

The only catch is that it's not the same price or less than the XH A1. It costs a bit more... but it's worth the extra $$.

I hope you're aware that there were versions of the XH that did actually provide uncompressed HD output. That was the XH G1 and later the XH G1S. The whole point of those two cameras was that they were identical to the XH A1 and XH A1S in every way, with the added bonus of uncompressed HD output over an HD-SDI jack, plus TimeCode and GenLock. These extra features meant that the G series cost quite a bit more than the A series, but the option was there if you needed uncompressed HD output.

It's the same thing now on the flash-memory replacements of the XH line, the XF300 and XF305. If you need uncompressed HD over HD-SDI, then you want the XF305. Otherwise, the model without it is the XF300. More about the XF series here: Canon XF Series HD Camcorders Forum at DVinfo.net

Hope this helps,

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Thanks, Chris. Canon lent me an XF305 last year, and I didn't like it for two reasons: a) too expensive, and b) too big and heavy.

I loved the way I could run 'n gun with XH-A1 -- and hold it for extended periods of time. Once, I even took it to Disney World with my kids and had it running during Mission to Mars! (Yeah, even an XH-A1 is a little too large for most folks to carry around an amusement park... but dammit, I got great, beautiful video of my kids having fun when they were young. And that was totally worth it!) :)

Anywho... the XF is outta my price range at present.

I recently had a production company shoot some video segments with their Panasonic HVX200A and I was extremely disappointed. I think the video I got from my XH-A1 looked better. (am I dreaming?).

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Consider also the Canon XA 10. Smaller, but no uncompressed HD output (unless you can take it from HDMI).

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

never tried myself, but with http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/815139-REG/Blackmagic_Design_HyperDeck_Shuttle_SSD_Field.html i think it is doable.

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Same size?

Same weight?

Same cost new?

Better low light?

I have owned a Panasonic AG-AC 160 for the past four months. Feels and handles just like the A1. without the extra size, weight, and big $$$$$ of the xf300.

Test one out. You'll love it.

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Why would a superior SSD camera with modern sensor and technology be only $300 more than an old DV tape camera like the A1? You won't find a new 3 CCD, 3 ring, SSD camera for $3000.

Look at the Sony Z5. It has slightly better low light performance than the A1s, 3 chips, and 3 rings. You can add a Sony MRC1K flash recorder as it was designed for it to snap on. The LCD displays info about the MRC1K as opposed to an add on type. Alternatively, the Z7 comes with the MRC1K. Then there's the Sony NX5u. Panny has a new line of 3 ring, 3-chip solid state cameras but again, you can;t afford them at your price range.

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

For CCD sensor cameras around $3000 the only choices are the Panasonic HMC150, Canon XHA1s and JVC HM150U. None of these cameras is a very new design, but everything else is CMOS. Unless you want to reinvest in XHA1s, I would recommend a CMOS camera and some post processing, if necessary, to fix the banding that can occur during flash photography at weddings. The Panasonic AG-AC130, Sony HXR-NX5U and Canon XF100 are possibilities.

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

I still have my A1, and use a blackmagic componet to sdi converter to record to either a Pix240 or Blackmagic Hypershuttle. For a simpler solution, I like the HMC150, similar to an A1 but only two rings.

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Hi Terry,
I'm curious, what sort of file do you get recording from the A1 with the PIX 240? Is it still 1440x1080? Or is it converted to 1920x1080? Also, are the images you get much better than using the HDV format with tape? This may be an option for me until i find a camera that will suit my needs.

Thanks in advance,

Bryce

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Bryce,
Chris Hurd is the expert here, but I understand that the componet signal is pre HDV compression, and is scaled to 1920x1080.
You also get a 4.2.2 color space instead of 4.2.0 which is better for green screen work.
I never did a direct HDV tape comparison because I stopped using tape. It is my impression that the results are superior to hdv, but not to a great degree for event photography...(where many other factors influence quality.)
For me, the BlackMagic converter and hypershuttle plus a smallHD DP6 monitor match most of the advantages a modern camera, and still with CCD.
Don't forget the firewire/HDV recorders which are much cheaper and are as good as tape. I'm using the PIX240 and balckmagic recorders because they directly provide Avid DNxHD media.

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

I'm not the expert here, Terry... I just run the place. Thankfully we do have a number of real experts on this site, however.

The Panasonic AG-AC160 is a good recommendation and well worth looking into.

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Ok, so I placed an order for the Canon XA10. Thanks to everyone here for their insights and advice. I watched numerous YouTube videos regarding the XA10 versus [insert camcorder here] and was pretty impressed with its performance.

Having spent the last four years mastering the XH-A1, I'm certain to miss the 3 rings and better zoom... but I'm expecting to love the smaller size and flash media recording. I'll have to wait and see if the XA really does outperform the XH in low light... and I'll be certain to let everyone know my opinion.

Thanks again, everyone.

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Expert?, come on Chris, I showed up here in 2007 as a total nubie, and most of what I know about video I seem to recall reading in one of your posts. (... and thanks for that)

I think the Canon XH A1 is a truly classic camera, and that's why I'm not going to sell mine, and still try to harvest the goodness on the lens and CCD sensor block.

I have come to appreciate the Panasonic HMC150 and HPX250 as I moved tapeless. But as a Panasonic "expert" I must caution those interested in the AG AC160 that it has some autofocus issues. In most respects the AC160 is a great camera, but be careful if autofocus is important in your workflow. I know, real video guys use manual focus, but some of us run and gun event guys have our hands full just trying to point the d**n thing.

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Terry, with the blackmagic composite - HDMI converter how is powered? Looks like a great little device for capture.

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Jonathan, the BlackMagic converter is powered by 12 VDC. It comes with a wall wart, but I use a standard Tekkeon 3450 for power. The BlackMagic Hypershuttle recorder has an internal battery good for about and hour, but still I use Tekkeon batteries to power everything but the cameras.

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Hi Terry

I'd like to know which of the 2 blackmagic's you're using:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/824124-REG/Blackmagic_Design_CONVMH_DUTYAAS_Mini_Converter_Heavy_Duty.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/558906-REG/Blackmagic_Design_CONVMAAS_Mini_Converter_Analog_to.html
I'm a run and gun guy myself so I'm also wondering how you mount that and the hyperdeck, many options I know, but what have you found to be the most ergonomic?

I'd also like to know much run time you get on either of these from the tekkeon? And if you're not running tape, how do you record audio?

Thanks

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Jase,

I have the second, non heavy duty converter... which was the only one available when I got it. Looks like they are similar except for the rugged case. Also note the converter has BNC component connectors, which will require a RCA adapter for the Canon cable...and stick out a bit.

My typical shoot is 2 cameras on tripods and two run and gun. So I choose the A1 as the master tripod mounted camera, and I made custom adapters to mount the converter, recorder, batteries and a DP6 on the tripos legs. I shoot an HPX250 with monopod for run and gun. If I needed to use the A1 for run and gun, I would consider taping the converter, recorder and batteries together and putting them in a small sound bag. The Datavideo DN60 should be considered here since it is light and easily mounts on the flash shoe. I had some minor reliability issues with the DN60 and never spent the time to work them out. But it could easily be the best practical solution for A1 run and gun.

I would estimate the Tekkeon to power these units for much greater than 4 hours, which is how long I typically last.

You are correct to be concerned about the audio, another plus for the DN60 option. I record sound on a Sound devices 788T, and can feed a line level input on the converter with various options like a wireless receiver output or mixer if necessary.

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Terry

Thanks for the reply. I've considered the DN60 but while the XH is a fine camera, ultimately I want a better codec. In that respect, I've also looked at the Panasonic 250 but reports of it also having an autofocus issue have given me pause.

Not something I use a lot, but there are those times when using the push autofocus is the best way to go. How have you found that in the 250? I noticed that you mentioned the autofocus issue with the 160 but not the 250.

XH-A1s = A slightly better Damn Fine HDV Camera
 

Hello guys. I have enjoyed my Canon XHA1s (and a Vixia HV30) for almost 3 years now. Tons of good projects that I have accomplished. Lately I have also added a Canon T3i to the mix and for some projects, the T3i has given me a creative edge. I use the A1s mostly for live events and lifestyle videos (ok...some weddings too!).
Now., I'm itching to take my videos to the next level (technically and artistically) and I have been looking around for a better camera at a reasonable price...I think I would like to avoid the AVCHD codec (I edit with an imac and FCP 7 for now-may get Premiere CS5.5) and the Sony EX1r and the Canon XF 300 seem to keep coming up in my searches. I really would like to get a camera that will give me a real upgrade from my XHA1s for live events and lifestyle videos- I usually have to use the A1s with +6DB gain (but I do have nice LED lights). I sadly realize that Canon has indeed abandoned the under $4K market- the FX100 is not a straight replacement for the A1s and I feel it wouldn't really satisfy me.
However, the price of the FX300 (and the Sony EX1r) is a bit much.

Are these two cameras really the only ones that can truly be considered an upgrade to the XHa1s?
I read all I can about the BBC approved coded etc., watched some videos comparing them-etc but I still can't get a qualified and balanced opinion. I will continue to use my Canon T3i for commercials etc, the stuff I can afford to ask my talent to repeat! Can't miss a beat with my long format camera...

I just wish I could get a camera (Canon preferably) that would be better in low light than the A1s, file based and better codec. The XF100 is not quite it.
Suggestions, Reassurances, etc would be appreciated from this thread- we all love our A1s and it has been an amazing tool!
Gracias

XH-A1s = A slightly better Damn Fine HDV Camera
 

Hello guys. I have enjoyed my Canon XHA1s (and a Vixia HV30) for almost 3 years now. Tons of good projects that I have accomplished. Lately I have also added a Canon T3i to the mix and for some projects, the T3i has given me a creative edge. I use the A1s mostly for live events and lifestyle videos (ok...some weddings too!).
Now., I'm itching to take my videos to the next level (technically and artistically) and I have been looking around for a better camera at a reasonable price...I think I would like to avoid the AVCHD codec (I edit with an imac and FCP 7 for now-may get Premiere CS5.5) and the Sony EX1r and the Canon XF 300 seem to keep coming up in my searches. I really would like to get a camera that will give me a real upgrade from my XHA1s for live events and lifestyle videos- I usually have to use the A1s with +6DB gain (but I do have nice LED lights). I sadly realize that Canon has indeed abandoned the under $4K market- the FX100 is not a straight replacement for the A1s and I feel it wouldn't really satisfy me.
However, the price of the FX300 (and the Sony EX1r) is a bit much.

Are these two cameras really the only ones that can truly be considered an upgrade to the XHa1s?
I read all I can about the BBC approved coded etc., watched some videos comparing them-etc but I still can't get a qualified and balanced opinion. I will continue to use my Canon T3i for commercials etc, the stuff I can afford to ask my talent to repeat! Can't miss a beat with my long format camera...

I just wish I could get a camera (Canon preferably) that would be better in low light than the A1s, file based and better codec. The XF100 is not quite it.
Suggestions, Reassurances, etc would be appreciated from this thread- we all love our A1s and it has been an amazing tool!
Gracias

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Jase,

The autofocus issue was originally tied to the 250,160, and 130 cameras, but now all the attention seems to be concentrated in the 160/130 owner's forums. The lens and sensors are the same, but signal processing and firmware are totally different. I don't know if the autofocus system is shared between the 250/ 160 lines.

My experience relates to the shooting environment. I mainly shoot music events at small clubs, with black backgrounds and musicians lit by overhead stage lights. In this environment, (good contrast), I run and gun with full time autofocus, and the 250 is as good as or better than the XH-A1 or HMC150, (mainly all three are good). I had one occasion to shoot a ballet in a drab rehearsal hall with a grey floor and grey background, and poor side lighting. I found the image to look ok on the monitor, but it was continuously hunting as the focus readout kept changing. I decided to shoot manually, and did not test the environment with a different camera.
Bottom line, I'm happy with autofocus on the 250 for my needs, but I know a lot of 160/130 users are having real problems.

Re: XH-A1s = A slightly better Damn Fine HDV Camera
 

I felt the same way and upgraded from an A1 to EX1R. You'll love its 1/2" sensors and the DOF/lowlight performance that comes with them that the XF300 doesn't have. Also, the EX1R is smaller and lighter than the XF300 and more the size of the A1. Other 3-ring, 3-mos solid state cameras are the Sony NX5 and Panasonic's recent AC line. But to upgrade above the AVCHD CODEC, you'll have to step up in price. Even still the EX1R is less than the XF300 and it has an SDI output. Assuming of course you aren't producing for the BBC.

Do some searching here in the A1 forum, there's many threads of A1 owners want to upgrade.

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Thanks for the input Terry.

Re: XH-A1s = A slightly better Damn Fine HDV Camera
 

EX1r is a great upgrade, you can get a good condition one second hand at a pretty reasonable cost too.
Stick a SDI capture device on the back and you have a small, full spec, broadcast camera. There is still a lot of life left in the EX1's

XHa1s coexisting with a new Canon XF300
 

Hello everyone. I decided to go for the canon xf300 and I can say that is better than my XHA1s in many aspects: resolution, ergonomics, LCD! etc but they are about the same in low light, but the xf300 has better dynamic range so it looks cleaner and I used it at +9db at a reception.
On recent project, I combined footage from the A1s, a canon T3i(converted to Pro res) and the xf 300 (also converted to Pro res) and with some colour adjustement,the final video looked fine. The A1s looked softer of course but acceptable. I can now use 2 good cameras in my projects.

I still wish I had compared the Ex1 against the XF300 but couldnt. I was able to find a gently used XF300 for slightly more than a used XE1 (no EX1r anywhere in Toronto!) and so I decided to go for the newer camera. I'm sure the EX1 is a bit better in low light but I never forget to use my LED lights.
here is a sample of timelapse taken with the XF300 and graded with magic bullet looks. Just tests..still learning..
Timelapses Vers 1.mp4 - YouTube
but I'm keeping my XHA1s!

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Hey Tony,

I'd be really interested in hearing your review of the XA-10 compared to the XH-A1.

I too love my XH-A1 but am thinking it's time to upgrade away from a tape based camera.

The XA-10 is one camera I've been considering. It'd be nice to hear what you think.

Charlie

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

I have an xh-a1 and my work has a xa-10.

I love not using tapes, but I don't think I could give up the 3 ring set-up

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

I have the HF-G10 and the XHA1s and have used the XA-10. Having used all, I would have to agree with Paul that, it will be difficult to downgrade from a three ring to a single ring. That being said, the video quality varies between the three with the HF-G10 and the XA-10 being extremely close until you get to some really low light situations. The XHA1(s) doesn't stand a chance in this comparison. Both the newer cameras have an internal hard drive and can take additional SD cards. I actually still prefer tape as an option. Hard drives do go out and cards can always become corrupt. That being said, if you really know how to use the XHA1(s), you can get some really good footage. I am actually still learning and continue to be amazed by what this camera can do. I will typically use it along with an XLH1 for business and I use the HF-G10 when I'm out with my family or a simple interview.

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Believe that the G10 and XA10 are both internal memory, not hard drives drives. Memory, especially removable memory such as CF and SD cards, can be corrupted by improper handling, and is not archival quality. That said, it is convenient!

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Isn't internal memory the same as a hard drive? But yes they also have two slots each for SD cards not CF.

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

They are physically very different, but both store video data and perform a similar end purpose/function.

Internal memory works like a permanently installed SD card that you cannot see or remove - no moving parts. The internal memory is a bit like the "Solid State Drives" folks are installing in workstations as their system drives.

An internal hard drive has a moving parts (e.g., heads) and a spinning magnetic disc - like the hard drive on a computer but a smaller form factor.

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Someone mentioned the Sony Z5 earlier as a possible upgrade from an XH-A1, because of the MRC1 CF card-recorder. Having had a year of editing footage from a friend's FX1000 (same as a Z5 except for the audio options) alongside my own XH-A1s footage, I have to say that the XH-A1s gives better images and has a more reliable auto-focus. I certainly wouldn't consider the Sony to be an "upgrade".

Since it will work happily with the A1s, my recommendation is to add an MRC1k to the excellent XH-A1s. The mounting is a bit clunky (sits on a hot-shoe or make your own bracket from aluminium, etc.), and it needs its own (Sony) battery. On the plus side you get all the advantages of solid state recording without giving up your tape archive or upgrading your editing hardware to cope with the demands of AVCHD. In the UK, recorder and battery will cost around £650, including VAT, if you shop around. That's what I'm about to do, anyway...

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

It's too bad the iPhone doesn't have a firewire port.

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

I had an A1 and MRC1K recorder and it's every bit as clunky as you describe. Rather than mount it on the shoe where I really wanted a wireless receiver, I built a sled so it could mount behind the camera. Also, unlike the Z5, when you use the Firewire port and power the MRC1K with it's own battery, there is no integration between camera and MRC1K for TC, status, CF capacity etc. You just get a dot and a connection icon.

It's well documented here on DVinfo that here's something about the firewire implementation on the A1 that sometimes made the MRC1K boot up thinking the A1 was a computer. I came up with this voodoo that solved the problem reliably for my camera. I don't know about the A1s. YMMV
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xh...eless-kit.html

Re: XH-A1 = Damn Fine HD Camera
 

Thanks for this information.