Just a reminder, our Sony Z1 / FX1 forum -- the largest in the world among English speaking sites -- is located at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=75. The topic of this particular discussion is the Canon XH G1 and A1. Thanks in advance,

Thanks for getting us back on track, Chris! Why don't we take the posts, including mine, about the Z1 and move it over to that page as a new topic?

Thanks,

heath

i am 90% sure that i am going with the A1 once it comes out. the price, the H1 technology, everything seems to fit. if money permits, and depending on what is available on the market next year, i will probably look to invest in the G1 as well- that would be a killer A/B cam duo, with the audio capabilities of th G1.

i have always been prone to lean toward canon products, going back to when i was doing primarily still photography. so in that, i am anxious to see what the XH series can do.

I went to one of the HD1 gigs in Nashville & said to myself if I could get that camera for $6000 with out the genlock & a 20x lens that is extended on the wide side, I'd get one. Well here it is for $4000. The A1 is all I need.

Though next time i'm thinking about what I'd pay for a new canon I'll make a few more requests.
Chris

I'm all for the A1.

And I love the idea of getting the XH image in a GL package. My XL1s is fun to shoot with, but a pain to transport. My work is all backcountry and even using Lowepro's largest pack, I have to take off the awkward viewfinder/mic to store in the pack. I'll have a lot more room now, and less setup time.

Can't wait to get one.

James

[ incorrect reference removed ] list the Canon as having a 20x zoom all right, but the sad fact appears to be that all this generous zoom's all in the telephoto arena.

The lens is a 5.4 to 108 mm zoom as against Sony's Z1 (4.5 to 54 mm), so the Canon's not 'extended on the wide side' as you'd hoped for Chris Korrow.

I certainly hope this is a spec error and that Canon at least start at the 4.5 mm point. This equates to a 32.5 mm lens in 35 mm still photography terms, whereas 5.4 mm is something like 40 mm. Not wide at all.

tom.

Focal range is 32.5-650mm per the DVinfo XH A1/G1 FAQ:
http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxh/xhfaq.php
Just scroll to the section entitled: Does the built-in 20x HD lens on the XH camcorders have the same focal length as the stock 20x HD lens included with the XL H1?

And this straight from the horse's mouth:
http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedat...xha1_xhg1.html
Scroll to the "Professional Optics for Professional Performance" section.

Just FYI, but this information was discovered with about 30 seconds of google searching.

www.philipwilliams.com

Thank you Philip,

The focal length of the 20x lens on the Canon XH G1 and A1 is in fact 4.5mm to 90mm.

To avoid needless confusion, I have removed the incorrect reference from Tom Hardwick's post.

When in doubt on technical specs, just consult DV Info Net, because we're usually right.

Thanks in advance,

Chris

If I go with a 'bigger unit' then it would be the A1. I'm still hoping a smaller HD unit will come on the market (with the functionality I want) but this A1 is the closest bet so far.

Thanks
JohnG

both look promising
 

The basic A1 Canon version is attractive for solo shooters. If I would use it in a studio (matching with other cams, or bluescreen work) the $3000,- difference for the G1 would not bother me. But every choice is premature: first the real images and than the disciscion.

For some documentary work - traveling and shooting in wild environments without AC power- it looks like that this cam gives you all you want. A point and shoot form factor and the weight and handling that is associated with it, long recording times, good audio, long and wide lens. 1080i is what is happening now in Europe, although the 1080p is what I want...

I wanted the HVX200 and got the budget to do so, but some things hold me up: I don't shoot with an assistant to change the P2 cards and to offload them, I don't have the power to run the portable computer to offload the cards. I don't have the muscles ( don't I? ;-) to hold the cam steady without a brace. So if I can shoot 25f I only need to look at the JVC HD100 again...

For all cam sales in Europe; editing is an important factor. For an Apple based editing/compositing studio we need FCP to do the job, 720P50 and its just not working...Canon needs to do that (25F) better than it would gain ground over here.

Well I am bored and found this interesting, so here I go rambling on.

To expand on what Kevin said, the reason a laptop can't handle uncompressed HD is the disks are too slow. WAY too slow.

The Expresscard slots are definitely fast enough to handle HD-SDI Dual Link or pretty much anything you could have done with PCI-X cards. Whether or not anyone actually does it, who knows. My guess is no, because laptops would need a second PC Expresscard slot with Fiber channel going out to a fast RAID array. By the time you include this array... well you don't really have a portable setup anymore, so why bother with the laptop.

The same goes for small "Shuttle" computers and Mac Mini's... they just can't handle the disks for this application.

Take a look at the Wafian HR-1, which can record compressed Cineform 10bit video data. It has 4 500GB drives in a RAID 10 or RAID 0 configuration. Of course that's presently $17,000 USD.

Alternatively take a look at an Apple XServe which can handle two PCI Express 8X cards and has storage for up to 2.25TB. Add in a Blackmagic or AJA I/O card and fill it up with drives and RAM and you have a nifty solution that should handle uncompressed 10 bit HD - just barely. (190MBps for sustained read/write on a 3 disk RAID 0) While its a bit of a kludge it is certainly cheaper than the Wafian solution.

It'll be a while before we get uncompressed HD on anything truly mobile.

The Cineform codec is a good example of a system that might get into laptops soon with a RAID 0 setup. (using two laptop drives) I like Avid DNxHD better which for a 10bit 4:2:2 profile which requires 28MBps. We can do that today in a laptop. The next step is to use native HDCAM SR in a 10 bit 4:4:4 profile which runs at 440Mbps (55MBps), which leaves us back at the RAID 0 laptop. A single desktop SATA can barely handle HDCAM SR... of course I am talking about the 10000RPM Raptors, so a RAID 0 of two or more should do it readily.

I mention being able to "barely" capture some of these systems. I mean that I am assuming contiguous capture on a nearly empty drive so we get nearly optimum sustained write performance. You certainly can't count on that being the case- especially not on a laptop where you typically have only one drive available for everything- but its theoretically possible.

Well I don't know that I have anything insightful at all to add other than blabbering the obvious... so I'll quit for now.

A1 v G1
 

I use an XM2 which does everything i need. I film mostly Horse shows, Dressage, Jumping, That sort of thing for family and some commissioned work. Mostly hobbyist,some movie of the grandchildren. You know how it is.
Going HD is a WANT thing. Its the A1 FOR ME. Now, where can I pawn my soul?

If you buy one, come on down to Wellington, Florida and make a mint shooting polo and other horse events.

hwm

Great idea Heath. The UK's biggest Polo fest happens just 20 miles from my home. Better go and get some shooting practice.

Cool, hope to see you here some day!

heath

i was gonna pre-order mine

but BH stopped processing orders until tomorrow night.

=\

The poll says it all. I do some multi-cam from time to time and still would consider two A1's before one G1. I'm so used to sync up manually anyway.
I have a XL-1 so for very critical stuff like drama I can use the SDI out in a one-cam setup.

I think it's great though that we now have a line of three cameras to choose from with the same great image.

A1 all the way. It's the best option for a psudo-starving college kid like myself.

Letting those of you know who are having trouble with B&H that I just pre-ordered mine through Scott Cantrell (a DV member) at Tapeworks.

If that's all you do and you want hd you should get an fx1 or fx7, what would you need 24p for?

The lens is pretty impressive on both of these bad boys(A1 & G1); finally!!! I saw manually controllable iris opening. If you ask me, it was long due…
G1 for me
Vic

I don't get your post Victor. We've had manually controllable irises for very many years on Canon camcorders.

What Victor meant was probably a manual iris RING, which wasn't on the CAnon camcorders, exept for their 14x manual lens.

I wouldn't call it a "Manual" iris ring...

I am sure it is electronic with those stupid "Non existent" ends... however, it is in a better place than the click wheel on the XL2

I expect no better control from it than from the one on the body of the XLh1. However it's location will make it a lot more convenient and it may feel smoother. Still, in the end I expect the same outcome in the footage.

Tom, the posts after yours pretty much clarified what I meant, but I'd like to further stress that it is very convenient (for me, anyway) when the iris is controlled directly from the lens ring and not from the small click ring on a camcorder. On xl2 it is rather inconvenient, and on xl-h1 it's little better, but, in my opinion, not good enough.
Vic

Yes, I realised what you meant as the replies came in Victor. But having an aperture control ring around the lens is more historical convention than it is a photographic desirability in my view.

DSLRs have long since abandoned the aperture ring around the lens, and cameras like the Z1 have replaced it with a beautifully damped, knured alloy knob thet's excellently placed to 'roll' your thumb across to imperceptably change aperture.

tom.

I understand what you mean Tom, yet all the 35mm cinema lenses have manual ring for iris opening and for good reason. I also think, when it comes to professional, moving image acquisition, ARRI/ZEISS is much higher standard then DSLRs and Z1.
Vic

In January 2006, I was looking toward the Panasonic HVX200 but I thought the P2 cards was too expensive in my opinion. So, I waited until November and was looking at the Canon XH-A1 vs Sony FX-7. The price for the Sony FX-7 was basically $1000 cheaper than the Canon XH-A1, but I really like the features on the Canon XH-A1. I placed an order for the Canon XH-A1 last Friday and it came in stock on Monday and will arrive tomorrow. I can't wait until tomorrow, it will be a early Xmas for myself.

I wish you a good shooting times on that one Anthony...

Honestly, I was leaning toward the FX1 because it was cheaper but honestly 800 lines of res (Canon's 24f) versus 500 lines (Sony's 30CF) well I think we know where this is going. I've seen great thing's produced with both but if I ever do a screen from digital projection I would really prefer 800 LOR. Even if I'm just doing an HDDVD or something. The A1 has it all, (at least all that I would want) so I'm going for that one.

-Nate

Well that's it, I quit sitting on the fence and finally got the XH A1. I was going back and forth between the V1U and A1, and couldn't decide what I liked better: the color of the V1U image or the image detail in the A1. The whole dilemma was solved by a great price from Steve Nunez.

Congrats! You won't be dissappointed. Sounds like you a got a great deal too.

Yeah, there's nothing to not like about the A1 (other than that you have to go to the menu to turn on and off the OIS, as you do with many other 1/3" chip cameras). Excellent price too.

Congrats you lucky bastich. Had I seen that price I would snatched it right from under you. Good work Michael, keeping an eye out for the best deals. I hope to see footage from you. I have yet to see any of Canon's 1080 footage so I hope you post some. Good looking out to you man and again congrats.

-Nate

Thanks guys, I'm off to some tropical islands through the middle of February. I'll make sure to post some footage.

Congrats Michael - I'd be buying the A1 as well (unless Sony comes up with a working fix for the 25p mode of the V1E).

i really wish if owners of the A1 could be able to upgrade to the G1 anytime !!!
SDI is cooland important when you need it, like shooting chroma at a studio !!!

But an A1 owner certainly *can* upgrade to a G1, at any time. Here are the steps:

1. Sell the A1.

2. Buy the G1.

I don't mean to be facetious, but that is the standard upgrade path and it's always available.

Or buy the G1 in the first place if you do a lot of studio work and need it.

Just had my first real play with a G1 at the Video Forum in London today, and must say I'm most impressed. Could do with a bigger side-screen, but the dedicated buttons, knobs and wheels really poke the V1 in the eye.