Custom Preset for Theatre Work
 

I finally made the upgrade from a PD150 to an XH A1 and an HV20. My A1 is still in transit (arrives on April 5) and I have a ballet production to shoot on April 6-7. (Nothing quite like watching your package on the 'Net with tracking, except a kid with a basketball watching the concrete cure.)

Anyone have a custom preset I can use for the high contrast and dynamic range of theatre lights on ballet costumes? I am used to the saturation produced by the PD150, but that isn't a requirement just a guideline. Final output will be DVD.

Just to make life tricky, I am hoping to use the HV20 for a wide shot of the stage (protection) and A1 for everything else. Should I skip a custom preset and just get the HV20 as close a possible or use a custom preset on the A1 and fix the HV20 footage in post?

Preset would be no help
 

I think I found the best preset for the constantly changing lighting conditions on stage. B&W.

Nothing ruins good video as fast as a creative lighting designer.

Well as a theatrical lighting designer myself I'd have to say "nothing ruins good lighting design as fast as a creative videographer." ;-)

Seriously, I also shoot archive video of our performances and unfortunately you just can't reconcile theatrical lighting design with the needs of video. On the stage we are generally trying to create looks which have an extreme amount of contrast. And that's exactly what you *don't* want for video.

Have you seen our "sticky" about shooting live performances? http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=60275

I recently completed working a project similar to what you are going to be doing. Maybe I'm just lazy, but I often use the Spotlight mode under these conditions.

Just my recommendation.

Chad

Dude, listen to me. Whatever you do, do NOT shoot above 3db gain.
I just shot a play tonight, and scenes that appear dark in the viewfinder,
are not as dark as they appear. I mad ethe mistake of going to 12db, and now I have to go reshoot a 2hr play. this play was DARK. the video
is absolutely unuseable. This camera freakin stinks in low light. It looks
like a single chip camera.

I seriously beg to differ. I recently shot my daughters HS Shakespeareian play (studio lighting) & with an optimum preset tweak, 6dB gain, Tv exposure mode with Exposure Lock, it looked great. Regarding the LCD, I agree, don't trust it. Use Zebras!

Bill

my experience was different: i shot footage in a dark theater with the panalook preset, and it came out looking shockingly noise free and clean for the light level. but i never went above 6db gain.

sorry to hear that you have to reshoot that!

I got my XH A1 and HV20 on thursday, shot the full dress thursday night and discovered the spotlight mode worked well. Reading a little, I found that the gain is automatically set to 0db. The HV20 on spotlight also keeps the gain at 0bd. I used the HV20 locked down wide stage shot and the A1 for mid shots and pans.

This ballet had some interesting lighting. With the plays I've shot, the lighting is usually set for the scene and only moderate changes are made during the scene or are predictable. The ballet had rapid changes and hot spots of bright lights on trees in the wings. As dancers passed by the lights, their silver unitard costumes would almost "pop" from the bright light.

My recommendation is to use the spotlight mode when you have a light show on stage.

I just shot two different stage setups

One where lighting was set to try and be even across a stage for Show Choir Performances (singing and dancing).

The second a HS performance where they used two spotlights to light up the stage along with moderate stage lighting. Very rapid and uneven lighting as spotlights had to move between actors.

We set the camcorders to 6 DB and used an AE shift of -1.0 (wish now it had been -1.5) on my wifes. I set the same but mostly hit exp lock which essentially puts you into manual mode. So I adjusted the shutter speed up to about 120 or 250 and then used the Iris to control the light. Her video was mostly good, but sometimes when two strong spots were on a person, it got a bit white.

Takes a little time to get used to doing the iris, but worked well (except when I screwed up). All in all try setting an AE shift to reduce the exposure a little, then be ready to hit exp lock and adjust for extreme conditions.

Bill in Ohio

Ballet lighting
 

The ballet performance was everything but an even flood across the stage. Here is one extreme, hence why I shot in spotlight mode with its automatic features. Much of the light came from the wings with just a little from above. The dark background stays dark with little noise. The background scrim actually had a faint blue cast, which the camera didn't pick up very well except at the very top. This ballet depicts the aurora, so the background being basically black is ok.

Of course, the light changes shortly after this shot. The spotlight mode kept up very well, though! None of my shots looked bad.

spotlight mode
 

Rehearing an opera recording at a theatre
with an XH A1 yesterday I was amazed at how
well the spotlight mode responded.

It was much quicker that me at accurate focus and exposure
leaving me to pan/tilt/zoom - getting every shot.

Even the extreme lighting ranges were handled so well
that colour and exposure had plenty of latitude
for post-production tweaks if needed.
It was so close to the theatre lighting on capture.

So, in spotlight mode, did you use any custom tweaks or just plain default? How about white balance?

BR, Erik

Spolight Mode
 

The spotlight mode rarely burns out so all adjustments can be made post-production (including some gain in extremely dark scenes).
The blacks stay clean presumably crushed.
The white balance seems to be correct for theatre lighting
but you can set it manually.

We used 2 cameras from the corner of the orchestra pit and shot very tight compositions (work best for TV)

What exactly is the spotlight mode basing exposure on? Is it center weighted or just center or what?

With spotlight mode do you get good exposure with both wide shots and close-ups?

I just shot a dance performance using exp. lock manual iris. This time I set the zebras at 95% and keep what I knew to be white at this level when lit by brighter lights.

I shot in 24F and found this gave excellent results. I set the shutter at 1/48 and I also tried 1/60. I'm not sure, but I think 1/60 might be a better option sometimes with 24F, depending on the subject.

Did you use autofocus? If so, how did it work in this situation?

I shot a variety of settings like spotlight, custom WB, AWB, TV, and manual over the course of 4 rehearsals. I settled on AWB, TV/Exposure Lock (but 99% manual) and zebras on 95%. I exposed using the zebras on white knowing those were about to blow out and let everything else fall into place. I found that while Spotlight was brainless, it was too dark and I didn't want to color correct 3 hours of footage.

Doug,

I have a very similiar shot coming up next week. Shooting a high school play in a theater. I will be using my new HV 30(comes in tomorrow) locked down for the wide full stage shot and my A1 for mids and pans etc.

Not too much lighting some, but not a whole lot. I am going to use panalook 2 for the preset on the A1. I plan on using the spot light mode on both to try and keep the image of the two cams close.

I have read all the live performance threads and I am looking for any other advice you could give for this type of shoot.

Thanks in advance,
Adam

It's the spring school play season. I just did Oklahoma! with the A1 and found the Spotlight mode too dark at rehearsal so I shot in manual and rode the iris. The brims on the many cowboy hats was problematic for good exposure on faces. YMMV. I had to go down to 1/30 shutter and +3db for the smokehouse scene. If you play has similar dark scenes or is not well lit, be prepared for that.

The play is The Wizard of Oz.

The director told me the lighting was minimal. But that could be the theatre standards of minimal not video.

I get a chance to shot the final rehersal on wednedsay afternoon.I will probally try some manual work and the spot light mode to see what will work for the lighting setup.

Tape is cheap. Consider the rehearsal a rehearsal for the camera op too. Tape it and review it as you might review game film for a sport. It will make your performance at the real performance better: Anticipating entrances, exits, surprises etc. Also, you may be the hero one day when something goes wrong and someone's line is skipped or a scene is cut short (happened to me once when the CD stopped during a musical number). The rehearsal footage saved the day for the final (edited) production.

Thanks for the tips.

The play runs for 2 nights so I plan on watching the footage from the rehearsal and first nights performance. Then if I need be, reshoot anything I need to at the final performance.

Having 3 opportunities to film should be a big help in making sure I have everything I need for the final edit.

Ok ,so last night I shot the dress rehearsal of a musical I am shooting live tonight. When I got the footage home I could not believe how the HV30 and A1 performed in the theatre

Had both cams set HDV 60i. I had my A1 set to Panalook 2 and spotlight mode and the HV30 locked down and set to spotlight mode. I used my Rode shotgun mic on the HV 30 for audio. I was set up 67 feet from center stage.

I was completly blown away with footage. The footage from teh 2 cams is so close its scary. Clear, crisp and with amazing detail. The only downside I could find is that Panalook 2 crushed the blacks a little bit. Not a enough to be noticed by my audience though.

Over all, I could not be happier with the 2 cams performance.

We'll see how tonights performance goes(crosses fingers)

Hi Adam,

I use the A1 and the HV20 to do similar shoots. Mostly dances, musicals, or vocal performances. What do you mean when you say you "locked down" the HV30? is there a way to see what shutter it's shooting at? I know that the gain is held at 0 but I'm not sure how the shutter/aperture is balanced.

Also, did yo use auto WB or did you manually WB?

I usually shoot full manual with my A1 and go through the trick to set my HV20 to a set aperture and shutter while holding 0 gain. I usually use the Panalook preset and I shoot Cine Mode with the HV20. The thing I really notice is that the two cameras handle reds totally different. Makes a pain in post.

Running full manual with the A1 means that I'm constantly making adjustments due to uneven lighting. Hot spots from the spots also prove to be interesting in trying to retain details in the dark areas while not blowing out the bright areas.

Could you post some samples of the same clips from the two cameras? I'd be really interested in using the spotlight mode if it yields acceptable results so I dont' have to concentrate so much on exposure issues and I can focus a little more on framing the shots.

Thanks.

By locked down I meant that the HV30 was on a tripod stationary with no movement for the wide shot of the entire stage. I used my A1 for pans and mids.

As for white balance, the the 30 was auto and A1 at was actually at the indoor setting.

I had the zebras at 90% and they only lit up a few times. And it was not on anyting important(trim of the barn and a fence post is all).

Im not sure about the reds. The main backdrop was a big red barn and it looked very close in color when I campared the shots.

I will post some screen shots when I start editing tonights shot, this weekend.