Yuh. I tried it myself an' now my durn XL1S is flickerin' ... an' it ain't even on.

Ken your test doesn't work I had 5 drinks and I don't see anything... at all, in fact I'm typing this and I'm not sure I'm even hitting the right keys.

Your post was was hilarious, of course I really have been drinking so maybe in the mornign it'll be less funny.

Its a defect - I'm returning mine today - I called the store.

lata

just got back from the CANON service center... at first the guy couldn't see it... of course i insisted that it's quite evident that it's there... upon closer observation... he saw it... he took it to the technician and compared with other xl2's and they all have the flicker... it's normal... don't sweat it thread starter... it's all to the good... for those that couldn't see it... yall probably didn't look hard enough... it's no big deal tho... this thread ends here...

Just cause it's "normal" doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. By that reasoning you could have taken your PD150 into the service centre stating that there is an audible hiss, and when tested against the other PD150's been told it's normal.. Would you have settled for it?

If it annoys the hell out of you then get one that doesn't have this as some seem to not be showing this problem.

Aaron

Yep, mine has it too. I don't even have to flip open the vf. I can see it in the normal lid closed position. Just like eveyone else, it's not really noticable when you view straight on, but if you look upward, it's visible but NOT THAT DISTRACTING, to me anyway.

I'm loving the hell out of this camera right now. It's staying!

regards,

-gb-

it doesn't bother me... aaron do you even have and XL2??? this and the hiss on the sony are two complete different problems... this flickering thing is only cosmetic... it does not show on the recording... and it's only noticable when viewed at an extreme angle... you're comparing this to the Hiss problem??? wow...

Kevin, of course I don't think they're the same level of severity - I was drawing a long bow. But the logic still stands.

If you have noticed something about your camera that you don't like, and there are others that have it, does that make it acceptable - I don't think it follows at all that it does. That's what I was meaning.

Aaron

But Aaron.... It seems like this thing is somewhat elusive in nature...I'm not sure you could really call it a defect if noone can see it until you tell them to stand on their heads, smoke a joint and then to cross their eyes while rotating the damn thing exactly 120 degrees forward....I mean who would look at a LCD at a 120 degree angle in the first place...you can't see anything but a Man Ray solarization of your image from there anyway.

I still can't see it...if the canon guys are saying this is a feature, not a defect...then dammit...my camera is defective...its lacking...impotent...I'm not sure I can go on.

Don't make me cuss anymore..please.

Barry

Haha Barry - Yeah you better send yours back in to get the feature added ;)

I wasn't making a big deal of it, so sorry if people though I was, I just don't like it when some service guy will go "Well the other cameras we tried does it." Cause that doesn't solve the fact that it's still there :)


Aaron

I've found something that bugs me more. I can see a faint reflection of the EVF info upside down and inverted when looking into it. Can easily see it with the lense cap on. However, I tend to remove the lense cap when shooting video so I guess I can live with it.

Does anyone else see this?


-gb-

barry... that was the best...

Yo Kevin post some footage bro.

This is sort if in the absurd line of "how does it compare to the DVX at +18 gain". Ah, what knucklehead would shoot anything of remote value at 18db or 12 db.....

My XL2 arrived and it seems it is not out-of-the-box ready to use.
It definitely requires some set-up in the color dept.
Unfortunately I was only able to assemble it last night and shoot around the house in Low-ish light to start to play with it. In easy "green box" mode, the picture was quite noisy, especially in the browns to blacks.
I put it in manual, opened up wide and slowed the shutter (alot) and that certainly helped to clean up the picture.

You people who have had the camera for a few days now, what kinds of settings are you regularly tweaking?

Are you having to up the color gain?

In cine gamma, did you find it tends toward the reds a little heavily?

That would fit well with Canon's history with the XL1.

What would you estimate the lux levels were at when you shot footage? I don't think "Green box" mode is a great idea as I am sure it ups the gain a crapload more than you would want.

Aaron,

I would be guessing (and probably get it way wrong) in guessing the lux level in my living room last night, so I won't. (I wish I could for my own knowledge-I need a little more experience in that dept.)

You are correct about "green box" easy mode. I think this was added purely for in-store demos or something. To shoot with no exposure control seems silly to me.

I can't wait to take it out this weekend and see how it fares under different lighting conditions.

I will also try to learn a little more about determining light levels.

Yeah I think you're probably right about green box mode being for in store demos etc. That and perhaps run and gun situations?

Let us know how your tests go! I'm interested in hearing some more results :)

"Green Box" (fully automatic "daddy-cam") mode has been on every Canon video camera I've owned (and that's quite a few!) as well as on many of their still cameras (which is where this feature derived). It has, indeed, seemed incongruous on XL bodies. But there are folks who buy these cameras for use in unattended or remote applications where its exposure settings cannot be directly controlled. Green box is just about the only way to get variable exposure in that setting.

<<<-- Originally posted by Paul Pelalas : Yo Kevin post some footage bro. -->>>

i got some footage from a fashion trade show that i was djing at last week but haven't imported it yet (30p, 4:3)...and when i was chllin in the hotel on the 11th floor, there was fireworks going off by the beach i was fortunate enough to capture (24p, 16:9)... i'll try and get that up but i have a project that needs to be done in two weeks so i'm pressin on that right now...

btw... what compression or if any, should i use for streaming or uploading... not so savvy in that department...

That depends on where you are uploading to. If you hae an iDisk on a .Mac account, send it up DV uncompressed. I'm sure some of us would like to see the footage pure and clean.

Evan

if not there are people that are around who would love to help out in the hosting department...

That's why I'm afraid to order the XL2 right now. With my luck, they'd come out with an XL2s and say, "Oh, and we've fixed this problem and that problem... and for everyone who has these problems on the previous XL2: too bad!" I've bought too many 'first run' cars that have problems that get "fixed" on newer models -- problems that I have to live with.

I'd DEFINITELY send it back.

I've been testing out my XL2 for the last 2 days and i haven't found any problems with it yet.

Flicker
 

Noticed the same flickering, took the camera back to the store and exchanged, there seems ti be a faint flicker on the new camera but very faint, dont think it will be an issue

I've noticed the flickering on mine but I'm not concerned about it. It appears to be scan rate flicker, like the LCD refresh rate is right at visual perception -- maybe that's why some people notice it and others don't. It's not annoying to me and it's only when I look for it at specific angles.

<<<-- Originally posted by Kevin Triplett : I've noticed the flickering on mine but I'm not concerned about it. It appears to be scan rate flicker, like the LCD refresh rate is right at visual perception -- maybe that's why some people notice it and others don't. It's not annoying to me and it's only when I look for it at specific angles. -->>>

On the camera I now have I notice a very faint flicker only at some angles that I suspect is what your seeing and is normal
In the camera I returned it was a much brighter and more pulsing flicker, this too may have been no problem or may have spoken to some internal calibrations or something ebing off, no idea, but as the extended warrenty I bought allows me to pretty much smash the camera to bits and get a new one for the next couple years and for the first 30 days do an over the counter exchange, if there is even a hint something is wrong, its best to check it out or exchange it
There is a definite noticable difference in the flicker between the two

Ah ha -- well if a comparison between two units reveals a difference between the flickers, I feel fortunately to have only a slight flickering. I'll try to check any other XL2 units I come across and report.

Id love to see the fashion trade show footage, I shoot alot of those.

An LCD should not have a refresh rate. What I'm guessing y'all
are seeing is the low framerate of 24p. Does it happen in 30p or
60i as well? When shooting in 24p the frame is probably just
updated 24 times a second which you may notice. The picture
updates has a too low of a refresh rate probably. Again, the LCD
doesn't have one (it has a response time from full black to full white)

I see the flicker in 16:9 mode as well. The thing is, I only see it when I'm looking for it not when I'm shooting. I only see it in the black bars and i'm not worrying about it. Perfection would be nice, but after shooting for about 5 hours yesterday, for me it is a non-issue.

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : An LCD should not have a refresh rate. What I'm guessing y'all
are seeing is the low framerate of 24p. Does it happen in 30p or
60i as well? When shooting in 24p the frame is probably just
updated 24 times a second which you may notice. The picture
updates has a too low of a refresh rate probably. Again, the LCD
doesn't have one (it has a response time from full black to full white) -->>>

Checked it in 60i 30p and 24p mode, was present in all

My guess is (and it is a guess) it is a power related issue. Possibly a way to lessen the amount of power that the LCD needs to use. I think the only way we'll ever know for sure though is if enough concerned members contact Canon directly.

Honestly though, I did not see it at 4:3 60i or 30p.
I saw a faint flicker at 24p which seems like I'm looking at 24fps so it didn't bother me.

At 16:9 I could see the flicker in all frame rates, however, like I said in my previous post, I was so busy composing, exposing and following my subjects that while shooting, I didn't notice at all.

the flicker only occurs on 16:9... on 4:3, it is not existent... the only thing flickering is the black bars on top and bottom of the letterbox.... as for the footage... what compression should i use and where should i upload it to...

Kevin. Are you saying that the flicker is "burned" or recorded onto the tape? Or did you just record the VF with another camera?



j.

It's not burned anywhere, just in the viewfinder.

the final footage shows no flicker at all... it's only on the LCD (when in 16:9 mode)

Hi Don. I have had my XL2 for nearly a year, and must admit I had never noticed this flickering. However, since this thread intrigued me, I took out the camera, switched it on and then set it to 16:9. Yes the flickering was there on the top black bar, just as you said. However, for me I found it not distracting enough to disturb my shooting.

I also noticed that when you point the EVF down slightly, the flickering goes away. Changing the angle slowly (up then down) makes the effect come and go quite smoothly, and my conclusion is that this is just the normal angle-of-view variation that you get with any LCD panel (in this case, it is probably leakage of the backlight through the area that is supposed to be black).

Of course. I have no way of knowing whether the effect that you are seeing is more extreme than on my camera, but if it is similar, i.e. does not distract you from using the camera to shoot, then I would not worry about it at all.

Richard

This is actually done with a DC offset on the S video chroma signal. 0 VDC ~ 4:3; 2.5 VDC ~ letterbox; 5 VDC ~ 16:9 widescreen.