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-   -   "The 23rd Doorway" - XL2 frame grabs! (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xl-gl-series-dv-camcorders/35212-23rd-doorway-xl2-frame-grabs.html)

Dennis Hingsberg November 19th, 2004 04:24 PM

"The 23rd Doorway" - XL2 frame grabs!
Shot with the XL2 and mini35 digital lens adapter a couple of days ago, I've managed to post some still frames from the shoot.


Questions, comments or spare change welcome.

Devin Doyle November 19th, 2004 07:34 PM

Dennis, looks like you have some great footage in the can. I myself am hocking my GL1 kit for an XL2 this Winter. I can honestly say from your stills that I'm certain I've made the best decision. I'm interested in seeing the finished product.

The mini-35 does wonders to DV, however it does seem to have softened up the image significantly. After working with the P+S adapter do you agree? It looks as if you added some white diffusion in a couple of scenes, so I thought it might be a possibility that you edited the other images as well. Alright, enough bantering, if you can fill me in I'd appreciate it...and good work!

Chris Hurd November 19th, 2004 08:16 PM

Awesome, Dennis! Much appreciated,

David Lach November 19th, 2004 10:59 PM

Hi Dennis, can you ellaborate on the look you were going for, how you acheived it with the XL2 (custom settings) and are you satisfied or not with the end result (anything you would have done differently looking back?).

Thanks for sharing.

Kevin Gilvear November 20th, 2004 08:02 AM

How did you get on with motion shots? I see there are a few scenes with running in them. Did they turn out well in the end?

Dennis Hingsberg November 20th, 2004 06:03 PM


Thanks. Yes some of the footage did turn out very well, while other bits were quite soft for one reason or another. Before I try to blame the mini35 to save myself from shame, I should really say that although there is 'some' softening by the mini35 most of the reasons in these images were either because of production or post.

Some stills are soft because they are in motion and a 1/48th shutter speed is being used. There were also some focusing issues during the shoot - not a lot of attention was paid to lighting so most of the scenes were majorly under exposed and I shot them with the exposure meter in the Canon all the way to the extreme left side (That's just flipping crazy). I was using a Zeiss high speed T1.3 50mm and had to shoot with it fully OPEN which in turn gives you a small and extremely shallow window to perform your focus in. And while the director got the high resoluton Sony monitor, I got the 2" LCD viewfinder... and had to pull focus myself at the same time while operating camera!

The white diffusion you see in some outdoor shots are actually from condensation on the lens from going from a warm environment to a cold one. It was also drizzeling rain which didn't help the matter. Normally when switching temperatures with equipment you should let it change temperatures before you start using it.

Lastly in post I had to resize the images to adjust for the 1.2 pixel aspect ratio which may have also done something to soften the images a bit. Also because the images were shot underexposed, in post I boosted the gain to get a normal looking image which ends up adding some noise. I then used NR software to remove the noise but creates an even softer looking image.

Lesson of the day learned? Compromises = pain. But I can honestly say that in motion the footage looks quite amazing on CRT and LCD despite all these problems. Next time will be better!

You can see some other images I posted last week in this forum with the same setup which are not as soft. The thread is called "XL2 - BMW stills & video".


Thanks, I was really excited to finally have some images to post after the problems I had getting my mini35 to go from XL1s to XL2. I've been waiting 3 weeks for this myself!


Personally I get most of my "look" in post using Adobe After Effects. I think it is best to shoot everything as normal as possible with normal settings, mainly because what you capture in camera can not be reversed so it could really limit your options later on. The only settings changed in the XL2 from the default were the knee & black settings. I haven't tried much of the other settings or playing with them mainly due to time but I hope to one day soon.


The alley way motion shots were shot with a 24mm wide angle lens out a car window. It looks absolutely brilliant in motion - I hope to have some footage to post really soon because they did turn out very well. The 24P really shines in these motion type of shots because as long as you somewhat keep your subject in the same area of the frame, everything else just gets that 'judder' or motion blue associated with 24fps film speed. With regular video (well I mean 60i) every single object in the background would also be in focus without any motion blurring.

This is one of the reasons the DVX even without the mini35 ends up looking like film. Because when there is motion you get real 24fps motion blur. But without the mini35 you don't get shallow depth of field so its a toss I guess... I'm actually really excited about the 24fps 720p 4:4:4 cam being developed in the "Alternative Imaging" & "HD" forums - you get raw uncompressed video at 1280 x 720 using 2/3" CCD's with amazing shallow DOF which to me looks a lot more like film then my mini35 setup.

Robin Davies-Rollinson November 21st, 2004 03:39 AM

<<and had to pull focus myself at the same time while operating camera!>>

I think that this just exemplifies the downside for people who strive for a "film look" using a shallow DOF. If it's to be shot properly, then a follow-focus rig is needed as well as an Focus Puller - note the capital letters; they're highly skilled people and worth every penny of their money!
I know that we have to look after every penny on some of our shoots, but there are two areas that I like to trust to other people - sound and focus... there's enough to be done with lighting etc etc ;-)


Kevin Gilvear November 21st, 2004 03:52 AM

Well that's great stuff Dennis, sounds good and you have obviously learned a lot from this so as to improve in future. I'd like to see the finished result so keep us updated :)

Dennis Hingsberg November 21st, 2004 09:51 PM

I completely agree that if people want to shoot like 35mm film then all aspects of production should be treated like a 35mm film shoot. In this case it was both financial and time constraints which lead some compromises having to be made. At the end of my day it was not my call, I was only hired to setup my rig and shoot with it how I could.

I've actually shot quite a wide range of work pulling my own focus and the results have more than often been exceptional. If time is on your side, you don't always need a major crew to get great footage but one definitely helps.

Testament to that is the footage I shot today for another short film titled "Little Acorns" which had a crew of two (and again I pulled my own focus during pans and tilts). Below is a link to the site with frame grabs and as you will see these set of images are quite sharper looking.


I forgot to mention this film actually has 20 different scenes to it so I will be sure to add more pics as more is shot.

Oliver Power November 22nd, 2004 02:11 AM

Great stuff Dennis, I've just gotten my XL2 and am dying to go out and shoot with it - particularly using the mini35.

The 'Acorns' footage does look much sharper than the 'Doorway' footage. What did you do differently on this shoot that has made it so much sharper?

Also, can you tell us what else you were using to shoot with? i.e. matte box, filters, tripod, bounces and lights, etc.



Dennis Hingsberg November 22nd, 2004 09:08 AM

Oliver, welcome to the XL2! You must be excited, for me it was like getting married all over again - only this time her name was Canon.

As fas as camera settings and such nothing was done differently, I was even using the exact same lens. I think the main difference was the pace and not being rushed. For "Little Acorns" I shot about 15 minutes of footage with 4 outdoor camera setups over 2 hours. For "23rd Doorway" I shot 30 minutes of footage with 6 indoor camera setups in about 2 hours. This is approximately DOUBLE the rate and we had to deal with lighting a lot more indoors.

Despite the soft looking images, in motion they are great and look amazing. Fortunately the 23rd Doorway looks killer on CRT TV which is where it will be seen primarily.

Production Notes: 23rd Doorway used no filters or matte box and the tripod was very basic, I think the model was Manfrotto with RC128 head... ? Lighting for the bar was a kino flow and arri 650 with some diffusion. Outdoor was all natural. Little Acorns used some bounce, a Photoflex disc.

BTW: I upload a rough edit snipet from Little Acorns: www.starcentral.ca/images/bc/sample.wmv (I don't know how to get it to play 16:9, for me its playing squished at 4:3 - does anyone know what I have to do?)

Jonathan Lawrence November 22nd, 2004 11:22 PM

Your clip and stills look great. Very nice. Please advise when picture is complete. Keep up the good work.

Yi Fong Yu November 23rd, 2004 08:11 PM

Re: "The 23rd Doorway" - XL2 frame grabs!
my fav is:

excellent work. is there a trailer? we like to see things in motion for video stuff.

Dennis Hingsberg November 24th, 2004 12:30 AM

Yi Fong Yu, no trailer yet - the film is still in production. However I put this together really quickly based on your request to see some footage with motion in them. In this sequence the character is running around town:


Kevin Gilvear November 24th, 2004 06:09 AM

nice work. now i'm curious to know just what it is he's running from or to :D

Rabi Syid November 24th, 2004 12:09 PM

how long will the short be?looks interesting

Yi Fong Yu November 25th, 2004 03:25 PM

excellent work again. if you took away the mini35 in all those instances, do you think you'll have a similiar shot or vastly different shot?

i know chris hurd has made a visual comparison shot of all the lenses available for the XL2 but i didn't remember the mini35 in there.

Oliver Power November 25th, 2004 03:37 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Yi Fong Yu : excellent work again. if you took away the mini35 in all those instances, do you think you'll have a similiar shot or vastly different shot?

i know chris hurd has made a visual comparison shot of all the lenses available for the XL2 but i didn't remember the mini35 in there. -->>>

You know that is an excellent idea. Somebody should do a shot by shot comparison so we can see the differences side by side. Set up a test setup, a still-life or something. Get all the Canon lenses out and then get a mini35 with a set of the Zeiss speed primes. Lock off the tripod and just swap lenses in an out and post the frame grabs. Though it would be nice to have some idea of the motion differences, I have a feeling that would be just too complex to put together and post online (too bandwidth heavy at least.)

If anybody in the LA area want to get together and do this test. Let me know. I've got an XL2 and the 16x manual lens.


Yi Fong Yu November 25th, 2004 04:22 PM


it's already happened oliver, save the mini35.

Jonathan Lawrence November 26th, 2004 03:04 PM

I'm getting an anginue (SP?) 10mm - 150mm Lens and a Peling 8mm fisheye both with PL mount adapters from www.xl1soulutions.com They claim there is only a 2x extention -I'll be mounting them to my xl-2 and shoot some frames that I hope to post before christmas.

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