Can someone please help with audio set-up?
 

OK, I am trying to attach a wirless laviler(sp) mic. I have a sinnhessier EW 100 E2. I want to run this mic along with the front mic. The manual for my camera has a "whole 3 pages" on this subject, (not very helpful). Can someone just tell me what the setting should be and which XLR to jack into.
Also I have a on screen audio preview of channels 1 & 2, however once I get the wireless mic going, how can I also see it's levels..???
I am even more confused about the setting on the mic, if anyone would like to try and help me with this as well..???

Hi Chris,

You want to record audio from the front mic as well as your Senn wireless lav. You'll be using three of the four available audio channels on the XL2. Those four channels are divided into two stereo pairs called Audio 1 and Audio 2. Here are your step-by-step instructions.

Step One. Bring up the internal menu system of the XL2. Go to the Audio Setup menu. Under the entry for Audio Mode, choose the option called "12-bit Ch. 1/2, 3/4." Close the menu.

Step Two. Open the large white door on the left side of the camcorder which covers the audio controls panel. The lower half of the panel is labeled "Audio 1" and it controls the first stereo pair. Set the Audio 1 input select switch to "Front Mic." Set the Rec Level switch to "M."

Step Three. The upper half of the audio controls panel is labeled "Audio 2" and it controls the second stereo pair. Set the Audio 2 input select switch to "Rear." Set the Rec Level switch to "M." Close the large white door. You'll be able to manually adjust the audio level knobs with the tip of your finger even though the door is closed.

Step Four. Plug your wireless receiver into one of the rear XLR jacks. It doesn't matter which one. Your lav is a mono mic which means it'll provide one channel of sound. Whichever jack you plug into just means that the other side won't be carrying audio. Remember the front mic is stereo so it requires two channels (both sides of the Audio 1 stereo pair of inputs). Your wireless lav requires only one channel (only one side of the Audio 2 stereo pair of inputs, and you can use either the left or right side, it doesn't matter).

Step Five. Use headphones to monitor your audio mix. Locate the Audio Monitor button just below and in front of the large round Program Mode - Power On dial. This button allows you to first isolate the Audio 1 pair of inputs, which have been designated to your front mic. Set the level accordingly using the bottom two volume knobs for Audio 1. Press the Audio Monitor button again to isolate the Audio 2 pair of inputs. You will hear sound from only one side (that is, through one ear in your headphones) since your wireless lav is a monophonic mic. Set its level using the appropriate one of the top two volume knobs for Audio 2. Press the Audio Monitor one more time and know you're hearing a mix of all three channels (actually it's all four channels but one is empty since you're not using it).

Clear enough? Hope so!

Kudos to Chris Hurd
 

Thank you Mr. Hurd for your wonderful and detailed explanation of this important procedure. It was very clearly laid out and easy to follow. I went through this problem a few months ago when learning my new camera - and generally found it fairly intuitive to a point - mostly because I have many years experience in sound work overall - but what I was missing was the audio monitor button - and could figure out why I could not test the signal coming through the rear XLR on channel 3 or 4. The audio monitor is clearly there, but I must have had a brain fart and developed a blind spot because I found it by accident after some hair pulling - and even though it is mentioned in both the manual and Greg Salman DVD, it was quite un-notable as to have me skip right over it without even noticing.

It seems that alot of people are confused by the 4 channel audio switching and monitoring options, so maybe Chris Hurd's instructional step-by-step post could become another sticky (not another sticky!!!) or put into some FAQ section.

As a side note regarding the settings on the wireless input. Personally, on my lav wireless Sennheiser, I find the input signal to be very - very strong - and easy to distort, so I have to use the attenuator switch (on the rear of the camera -independently switchable for each channel- below the XLR input) and then flip the input to manual control to get what I think is the proper input level. - Just something to think about for Mr. Fritsche.
-Jon

Thanks Chris, I will try as soon as I get home tonight. Yeah you are right about the usefulness of this. Video is the easy part, (turn it on and point it at something), the audio is a little more difficult, the manuel is not very informitive, I mean it tells you what to do, but doesn't really explain "how" to do it.

Isn't the microphone receiver output line-level unbalanced? If so shouldn't it go to the audio-in pin jack, not the XLR connector, unless you also put a pad between it and the camera.

Wouldn't it be possible to leave it as 16 bit and only record two channels, channel 1 on front picking up one of the on-camera mike's sides. Put channel 2 on the rear connector and put the wireless mike on it. Of course you'd probably throw away the track recorded by the on-camera mike but odds are you'd do that anyway and this way you'd end up with at least one good 16 bit track from a good mike instead of 3 mediocre 12 bit tracks, two of which are likely destined for the great bit-bucket in the sky anyway.

For my money I'd rather have one good, clean 16 bit mono track than 3 noisy 12 bit tracks.

sennheiser ew 100 G2
 

Does anyone have this wireless mic set-up, I coud use some help getting it to recorder with my XL2

Chris what should I do with the Audio 1 switches amrked " Record channel select and Mic ATT". I have followed your instructions, but I can not get my wireless system to work. It is on and functioning, however I show no signs of picking up any kind of audio signal fromt he wireless mic, I am sure I have a setting wrong, but I nned to use these tomorrow, and I have read all the pages in English in the manual, nothing tells you how to set up the system and run with it, it jsut covers what the menus do, not very helpful, can any help..

Chris' explanation is excellent.
 

You might also try staying 16 bit by removing the onboard mic for a shotgun or mono close range mic. This second mic would be connected to the second rear jack and you would then only record 2 channels, one lav, the other, the onboard.
This is the best environment to test your lav. Be sure you are on rear audio1 and your mic settings are att or mic. Headphones are required. The sennheiser has settings for sensitivity, try -10 to begin. There is a volume control on the receiver ... make sure it's on...

Thanks Jimmy, your mentioning the word "reciever" got me to actually look at the back of the mics, like a moron, I had the backwards, I knw it had to be "user error"....

Sorry Steve, that's not how the XL-2 works. You cannot independently control the destination of all 4 channels. They are input 1 and input 2 and both channels of a given input will be taken from the same location.

regards,

-gb-

To phrase Greg's statement a different way, think of the four channels as two stereo pairs. The pairs can't be split; both channels of a particular stereo pair will come from two RCA jacks, or two XLR jacks, or the hot shoe, or the front mic. Unfortunately you can't designate one XLR jack and one RCA jack within a particular stereo pair. It's always two and two.

Sorry, not possible. The front mic is a stereo mic so it always requires two channels. The front mic can't be switched to mono. What you could do instead is simply replace the front mic with a mono XLR mic. Add a wireless receiver for the remote lav and you've got your two channels at 16-bit quality.

I have never known 12-bit audio to sound "noisy." The ubiquitous Sony VX1000 had 12-bit audio and nobody ever complained about it. In my opinion it depends on the situation. We're talking about a wedding here. I seriously doubt that the customers would be able to discern a difference between 12-bit and 16-bit audio when they review their DVD; and having the extra channels of coverage more than makes up for the relatively slight hit in audio quality. I'm willing to bet the newlyweds will appreciate the wider coverage at 12-bit quality much more so than the limited number of sources at 16-bit quality.

Still Lost
 

Hi All, I just came back from USA and vissited BH Vidoe in NYC. WOW. Any way, I bought a lav mic and am trying to get both the lav mic and the attached mic to work. I followed everything in this thread and still no luck. Audio mode in menu is set to 12bit CH1/2.3/4

If I use the rear XLR jack, the lav mike works fine on audio 1 when I switch tje Input Select to Rear. If I have it plugged into XLR 1/3 it plays on one channel when I use the CH1 / CH1-CH2 swith set to CH1 and on both chanels when selected to CH1-CH2. If I plug the LAV mic into the XLR 2/4 I get only one channel (channel 2).

Everything seems ok up till this point. Lav mic works, channel select ok, ...

When I set the Audio 2 input select to rear I hear nothing. NAda, nix. I tried plugging the LAv mic into both XLR jacks.

I plugged the LAV mic receiver into the RCA jacks (AUDIO 1 and AUDIO 2). I only get sound on the AUDIO1 side when I set the input switch to AUDIO 1.


I am using headphones to monitor this.

Is my AUDIO 2 hosed or am I missing something.

MAny thanks,

Still need help
 

Hi All,
I still am stuck. I am not sure if I should have stuck this on th eend of this thread, but this seems to be the best that explains what I should be doing. I am pretty sure that I have a HW problem, but before I send it to Canon, I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. Any help would be most appreciated.

Hi Steve

I think you might have over looked one step.

Menu your cam to 12 bit 1,2 / 3,4 mode.

Hook up everything.

Select your audio2 rear input. Same for front audio1.

With your headphones on, toggle through the 3 vu displays in the viewfinder. You should have levels showing for all connected sources.

Man am I dumb!!!

I wasn't heaing the channels 3/ 4 because the AUDIO MONITOR button was not set properly. Page 49 of ther manual . Thanks!!

The first two posts in this thread mention the importance of the audio monitor button. I'm glad you finally found it...Now you are not dumb,...and if you think you are, re-read the second post and it clearly demonstrates that I was dumb first.
-Jon


BTW: In this case it is better to be dumb than deaf...if dumb, you can still hear the audio when using the correct setting...if deaf...well, Canon doesn't supply a button for fixing that on the XL2.
-J.

hello everyone

since this is somewhat, what i need help with i guess i'll stick it here, hehe

im just using a xlr sgm( no front mic) could someone give me a good set up for it please im a little lost.

thanks

Mike

Hi Michael,
I hope the following clears up your situation for you:
As an XLR sgm, and your only audio source, I would think you might want to take the mono signal input and place it onto both L & R tracks so here is what you do:

Be certain you are using the default audio setup menu setting. If you have switched it around at some point, just double check, but if not, it will already be in the default mode of 16 bit 48kz stereo. (You can double check this by selecting menu>audio setup>16 bit...[I think that right, I'm not in front of the cam right now])

Connect your sgm into the left rear XLR input (ch. 1/3)

With the audio control panel (under the left rear audio control door/flap) switch your Audio 1 setting to 'rear'. This will transfer your input signal the rear XLR inputs and you should be able to hear (through headphones) the sgm coming into the left side of your phones (channel 1). Now, in the audio control panel, you will find a switch that gives you to options (ch.1 or ch 1>2) Select Ch 1>2...this turns your left mono feed into a dual channel mono feed so you will hear your sgm on both sides (ch 1 & 2.)

At the rear of XL2 near the audio input jacks you will find small switches that allow both phantom power and attenuation for you input. On your Azden, I am pretty sure you do not want the attenuation on. Attenuation cuts the signal input to avoid distorting but this should not be a problem on your sgm. If you mic uses a battery, make sure it is fresh and functional. If it does not, than the phantom pwr switch provides the necessary juice.

Finally, back to the audio control panel, you can select either A or M (auto or manual) volume adjustment. The Auto generally works quite well, but on some sgm's you want a little more manual control, so you can switch it to M (manual) and turn the volume dial according to need.

Finally, just a reminder as it has come up before and hardly needs repeating..but just in case...the XL2 does not have a speaker. You will need to monitor your audio through a decent pair of phones.

Good luck, I hope this helps.
-Jon

Thanks for all your patience.

Though I thought I read the posts and understood them, I guess I really didn't. I read Chris's and Jon's but still missed that dubious AUDIO MONITOR buton. Maybe my eyes didn't want to see it, because I never used it before and therefore didn't even know it existed.

Thanks all.

I think that is one for the FAQs.

Thx Jon!! :)
 

Thanks alot Jon, ill recheck my settings.

Thank you again

cheers
Mike

This is a question for Jonathan:

I'm basically using the same setup you mention here for mono, but I wonder what you would suggest if I want to use the stereo XL2 mic just for ambient street noise and use the audio tech mic for someone speaking...should I change from 16bit/48k, to 12bit? or can I stay with the same settings for my sgm and just use the front mic and adjust settings for that in the audio control panel? front, channel 3/4?

Hi Lucinda,
Unfortunately, this is where it gets a little more complicated. Basically, you are going to have to use the 12 bit option here. The front mic always requires the stereo input of audio one is not selectable in audio 2. (There is a complex workaround to get what you want, but it requires costly external hardware, and you will still need the 12 bit option for dedicated track audio input to the tape)

So, basically, you will have to switch to 12bit / 4 channel, and then select the front mic in audio 1. In audio 2 you will switch to 'rear', but the ch1>2 option for dual tracking does not exist for ch3 & 4, so your audio tech mic will only be tracked to the left field on ch3, (or the right on ch4 if that is your chosen input.) You can dual-track-mono this signal in post if you prefer, for a more natural listening experience.

While you are at it, you might want to consider 'up'-res the 12bit to 16 bit in post in case you are going to mix it will sound effects, music, or other 16 bit standard sound files. The general consensus is that many NLE's get easily confused when there are multiple bit-rate sound files in the same project. It took me a while to get anyone to explain to me what the result would be because most people just pass-on the info without knowing what about the NLE gets 'confused' - so I tried it a few times to experiment and found that in some areas of multiple audio layering with variable bit rates, sometimes the sound loses sync, and sometimes a few pieces of audio just sounded 'mulched' for lack of a better term. (Kind of like if sound was visual and you held a large magnet against an old tv screen)

Depending on your capturing application, you may have to run a 2nd capture session to get separated audio tracks into your NLE. Some apps will take all of it in 1 session and keep the tracks separated, others will mix it by default giving you no separating options, and most will provide you with options to capture 1st with just tracks 1&2 audio, and then a 2nd time capturing just 3&4 audio.

(Just a note re: 12 bit audio. You will find purists in the forums that deride 12 bit audio, and attest to its inferiority-chastising all who use it. I have worked in professional audio since I was 14 (now 38) and have near-freakish hearing, and will say this:
12 bit audio is FINE for some situations. ambient noise and spoken word... pretty much no problem at all and 98 percent of the world are never going to know the difference. If I am capturing something like music (especially with wide dynamic range, like jazz or orchestral, I like to stick with 16 bit. There is a noticable difference with dynamic presence.

But 12 bit is fine....most folks are going to view video files using crappy computer speakers, or crappy tv speakers....and I know for certain that alot of 12 bit audio has been used in network broadcast without prompting ol' Magnavox Joe to get off the couch and fiddle with the 'tone' knob.
'nuff said..

Hope this helps...good luck with your project.
-Jon

Jon,

ok i recheck my setting and they are set up the way you said. im having a hard time hitting -12db. anything that might help me reach the level?

and one more question for ya ( hope you dont mind :) )

XLR CH1/3 and CH2/4, can i use one or the other? or can i only use CH1/3? do i need 2 XLR mic's to beable to use CH 2/4?

cuz i pluged in to CH 2/4 and im getting no sound...

a little baffled here heheh

thanks
Mike

If you are trying to dupe the signal to both L & R fields for a centered mono track you can only use CH 1/3 input . If you using the CH 1>2 setting to do this, it does indeed disable the input from the CH 2/4 jack.

As far as reaching the level you are trying to achieve, if you are trying to get a stronger signal, make sure your attenuator is 'off', set your input to manual control, dial your input setting knob to as high as you need to, and then if using the Azden sgm, test your levels according to the intended sound source output (ie: direct line of sight to the camera lens between apprx 7 - 30 feets away, not by speaking into it from the side while trying to monitor the level bars on the viewfinder - as the sgm attempts to cancel incoming signal from the sides and rear of the mic.

If on the other hand you find your incoming signal is too hot...activate the attenuator to pad the signal, then set the incoming signal to 'auto' as the camera attempts to smooth out the incoming signal....if it is still too hot even with 'auto', then switch to manual adjustment and dial the signal down as far as needed.
-Jon

ok so if i only have 1 XLR mic i can only use CH1/3. thanks for for taking your time to clear things up for me

thanks alot
cheers
Mike

Yes, that's right - if you are okay just using only one side than CH 2/4 is okay too, just remember to switch the ch 1>2 switch back to ch1.

Have fun.
-Jon

Jon,

Healdsburg...I used to live in Mendocino...and went thru Healdsburg having breakfast not too long ago. Beautiful area!

Anyway, my current NLE only has 16 and 8 bit, not 12...ugh. So, I know I can just use the shot gun mic for ambient and for interviewing/talking, etc., I've just done that.

I was just wondering how to use the stereo mic along with it, but I guess I'll have to wait 'til I get FCP.

Thanks so much for your detailed responses! Really helps.

I used to drive through Mendo all the time on work.

May I ask what NLE you are using?

I am still learning FCP (in my off time) so I have pretty much used iMovie so far, which doesn't have any cool advanced sound control features, so I import my 12 bit audio into other apps like QT pro or Audacity and convert it to 16 bit and then drop it into the iMovie time line. I haven't had any problems keeping it synced when I make my cuts.

-Jon

I'm still using Premiere 6.5 because Pro is for Windows/PC users. I basically use Premiere for tying all the clips together that I import from AE and Commotion Pro and Digital Performer. I just checked and saw that this version of Premiere doesn't support 12bit, as I said, only 8bit and 16bit which is what I've always used: 48k and 16bit stereo.... While recording with the XL2, I've been using mono on channel 1/3 and it sounds perfect. I assume that FCP has the 12bit audio option.