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-   -   Convince Me I Shouldn't Sell My XL2 (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xl-gl-series-dv-camcorders/478674-convince-me-i-shouldnt-sell-my-xl2.html)

James R. Wilson Sr. May 13th, 2010 06:35 PM

Convince Me I Shouldn't Sell My XL2
 
Bought a new XL2 a few months before the XHA1 was released. I bought the XH right away. I love the XL, the additional lens, etc. The camera hasn't had six tapes run through it. I still have all the original packaging. I just keep thinking I'll use it on a project, but I don't. Now I have the XH, two 1D MKIV's. Is there any reason I shouldn't sell my XL?

Thanks!

Jim Wilson

Jeff Anselmo May 13th, 2010 08:39 PM

Hi James,

From a business standpoint, if the XL2 isn't making money for you, then you should definitely sell it. And from a non-business or hobby standpoint, if you feel some sentimental value for the XL2 then you should NOT sell it :)

We are planning to upgrade to HD, from the XL2, but we're not in a hurry. (Planning to buy either the Sony EX1R or the new Canon XF300.) We recently used the XL2 for a project, and will use it again this August for a friend's wedding. And afterward, we hope to sell our XL2.

Good luck,

James R. Wilson Sr. May 13th, 2010 08:47 PM

Xl2
 
Dear Jeff,

Thanks for your reply. I don't have any attachment to it, other than the money I invested in it, and the accessories. I know I'll take a beating on it even though it's literally pristine, but that's what I should do. In the fall I'll have two more Canon bodies capable of HD (1Ds MKIV), so I just can't imagine the XL2 being used for anything. What would you guess it's worth with both lenses and all the original accessories?

JW

John Wiley May 13th, 2010 09:05 PM

Sell it! Sell it now before eveyone forgets what SD is! You've got plenty of other cameras and there is nothing the XL2 can do that one of your other cameras can't.

Prices on old SD gear have dropped dramatically on ebay (at least in Oz, anyway) and now there's plenty of first generation HD cameras like the the Z1, XLH1, JVC HD100, and HVX200 appearing very cheap!

I could understand keeping it if you were still using it daily (I know plenty of people who still swear by their PD170's) but if you don't need it then sell that puppy while you can, take the cash and book a holiday!

James R. Wilson Sr. May 13th, 2010 09:18 PM

Xl2
 
You're right John. Is EBay the best route?

Martin Mayer May 14th, 2010 06:30 AM

You SHOULD sell it, while you still can. It's SD. It's 4:3.

Tim Kolb May 14th, 2010 08:03 AM

I don't know if eBay is the BEST route...I buy from there frequently, but I have a pretty aggressive buying strategy. I only purchase items that are no-brainer ROI.

Maybe tune into eBay for a week or two and see what these cameras are going for...

Another option might be to find a school or church to donate it to and write it off...easier for you to determine the value that way.

As others have said, SD 4:3 gear, particularly DV gear just isn't worth much these days.

I saw a standard def XDcam ENG camera on eBay a couple days back...I think it was a PD530...it was 16:9 capable...on-board wireless receivers...I remember looking it up and seeing that the body without the lens retailed for over 30K USD, and this camcorder was being sold with a pretty solid piece of glass on it. It was sitting at 6K until the last 5 minutes...it ended up selling for a touch over 8K USD...very likely less than 20% of what the rig was purchased for less than 5 years ago. I felt bad for that person.

I'm guessing that even a pristine XL2 isn't going to hold much of its value unfortunately.

(I have a PDX10 that I'm just going to start to set up with a teeny rail system and a little mattebox and keep forever because I like it... :-) )

Rainer Listing May 14th, 2010 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Mayer (Post 1526930)
It's 4:3.

Its also native 16:9. It's the best miniDV camera ever made and ever going to be made. But its yesterday (I admit I'm holding onto mine only for sentimental reasons).

Ian Stark May 16th, 2010 06:22 AM

Most of what I create ends up on the web, compressed and shown in fairly small windows. It's primarily business to business case studies and promos. With careful shot planning (which I would expect to do anyway) my XL2 gives me outstanding results (cheaply and quickly). Even the projects that are destined for DVD don't suffer from the fact that they are shot in SD (and I'd like to also point out that the XL2 has 16:9 capability, contrary to an earlier comment).

I am upgrading to HD right now, in fact, but for the rapid turnaround, better margin, mortgage-paying work I can't see any good reason to ditch the XL2 for at least the next year. With SD footage I can work effectively with a 32 bit OS, I can edit on a laptop, render times are much faster, I enjoy realtime preview with modest equipment, no need to work with intermediaries etc etc - many reasons why it's still paying its way - for now. I should add that not one of my clients has yet asked me for HD output (that includes IBM, Levi Strauss, T-Mobile, Lenovo, Sprint).

If I was doing weddings, commercials destined for TV or drama and documentary work then my answer would be different, of course. And ask me again in 12 months and I expect my reply will be different. But for now . . .

Martin Mayer May 16th, 2010 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainer Listing (Post 1527122)
Its also native 16:9. It's the best miniDV camera ever made and ever going to be made. But its yesterday (I admit I'm holding onto mine only for sentimental reasons).

Not what I'd call "native 16:9". Agreed, it has a 16:9 mode, but the sensor is 4:3, and using the 16:9 mode reduces resolution visibly by scaling. I can understand owners supporting their own kit and preferences ("...best miniDV camera ever made..."!!), but let's not put incorrect technical information out there.

Pete Bauer May 16th, 2010 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Mayer (Post 1527534)
Not what I'd call "native 16:9". Agreed, it has a 16:9 mode, but the sensor is 4:3, and using the 16:9 mode reduces resolution visibly by scaling.

Old, old misinformation...fell off my dinosaur last time this was argued. Call it "native" or don't, but it is incorrect that the XL2 16:9 mode has a reduced resolution due to scaling. The XL2 is optimized for 16:9. Check the many old posts here and the camera specs: more sensor photosites are used for 16:9 than 4:3 mode, and both modes use more than the resolution of DV:

NTSC 720x480 DV image = 345,600
XL2 CCD = 680,000 with horizontal pixel shift
Effective 4:3 px = 350,000
Effective 16:9 px = 460,000

Anyway, James, I'm in the same boat you are. I have cameras sitting around that I likely just will not be using and need to sell them. There are always folks out there who still want these cameras.

Rainer Listing May 16th, 2010 03:56 PM

Thanks Peter. And Martin, I totally agree about not putting incorrect technical information out there.

Chris Hurd May 17th, 2010 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Mayer (Post 1527534)
the sensor is 4:3, and using the 16:9 mode reduces resolution visibly by scaling.

Incorrect -- that's *not* how it works. See my article for the real story:

Canon XL2 CCD Block Overview by Chris Hurd

Jeff Anselmo May 17th, 2010 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James R. Wilson Sr. (Post 1526786)
Thanks for your reply. I don't have any attachment to it, other than the money I invested in it, and the accessories. I know I'll take a beating on it even though it's literally pristine, but that's what I should do. In the fall I'll have two more Canon bodies capable of HD (1Ds MKIV), so I just can't imagine the XL2 being used for anything. What would you guess it's worth with both lenses and all the original accessories?

Hi James,

I agree with posters that you should check out eBay and what past buyers have bought used XL2s for. I'd gather that the more accessories you add to the XL2 pot, the more attractive it'd be.

I've also begun researching other stores buying used equipment, like B and H. But I suspect that they'd offer me the absolute lowest price for a used XL2 :(

BTW, like Ian mentioned, our past and current clients have not asked for HD either. Our delivery is mainly to local broadcast TV, the web, or DVDs. (Yikes, would love to have some "corporate clients" :) But there were a few prospective clients who have asked if we were HD-capable, and sadly we had to say no...or not yet!

Best,

Ian Stark May 17th, 2010 02:22 PM

Jeff, in the past I've answered 'yes' to the HD question if I considered it possible to charge a premium. To be honest, it only happened once, and I went and hired an HD camera for the day. Editing was painfully slow but thankfully it was only interview footage that needed top and tailing so OK to edit in half size draft mode (in Vegas). The point is I try not to let a little thing like not having the equipment stand in the way of winning a new customer!

That leads me to another thought . . . when it finally comes for me to make the move to HD (within 12 months I guess) I may consider making my XL2 available to rent. They're still widely available (at least in the UK) with basic kits going for around 70 per day/300 per week (when I last checked, anyway). You don't need too many of those to get the same money you would if you sold it on eBay.

Whether there's a market, and whether that market will still be there in a year, I have no idea, but might be worth giving further thought to it.

By the way, I didn't want to oversell the corporate client thing - those guys can be painful! I get more work from my smaller clients - who also pay me quicker! What I really meant was that big boys like IBM etc aren't yet asking for HD even though you'd think they'd demand the best and most expensive option - far from it (sadly!).


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