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-   -   What to do, what to do? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xl-gl-series-dv-camcorders/65661-what-do-what-do.html)

Ruben Mendez April 22nd, 2006 02:21 AM

What to do, what to do?
 
Okay had my job in (November 2005) lay me off so I could roll the dice and
write/shoot a 15 to 20 thousand dollar film by the end of this year. (I'm selling my just restored 68 mustang and WAS willing to use a 10,000 credit card that I have) Everythings cool except some work fell on my lap (promo video, weddings) that unexpectedly netted me $ 7,000. And now that I know I can earn a decent living doing weddings/promo videos. Im struggling with my instincts which say "still take a chance, or you'll regret it later. While my brain says "stupid, this money fell on your lap now be smart and use it wisely. So I would like to try and purchase equipment and a camera that I could use for both situations. I have changed my thinking from just taking a BIG risk to being some what more resonable, where in lies my confusion, on most forums everyone says for weddings (low light conditions use a vx2100, not an XL2. I need an honest answer to this question, will the XL2 do a good enough job (where the average customer will be satisfied) in these low light conditions. (I know it cannot compare to vx2100 in low light conditions, the guys at samy's camera made that clear to me.) This will help me decide which route to go.

Use this 7,000 to:

1. Go the safe route and use this money to buy starter equipment best suited for doing weddings (vx2100, beachtech, fire store, wireless mics, shot gun, 30 - 50 watt light etc...) and use this time to build up a client base for next year. (And go with my plan to sell my mustang and if need be use my credit card to shoot the movie)

2. Buy an XL2 and put the rest of the money towards the movie, with the 8 to 10 grand I will get from selling the mustang. (Forget about venturing into the wedding market)

3. Buy an XL2 and use the rest of the money for equipment specifically needed to shoot weddings with. (Then I can build up a client base for next year) And go with my plan to sell my mustang and if need be use my credit card to shoot the movie.

Also, I dont want to go the hd route, or buy a dvx100. I want the canon so I cant use a mini 35 + better lenses. I must make a decision before June, the company which owes me the money (my old job) new fiscal year starts then. They are willing to purchase the equipment for me (they get a school discount) or pay me out.

Sorry for the run on sentences, I know this is more than just a technical question. I just need some advice and sometimes its better to get it from people who are not in your cirlce of friends.

thanks.

Tony Davies-Patrick April 22nd, 2006 03:58 AM

The end choice is always yours, Ruben; but if it were my own choice I'd buy the XL2 and use it for the promos/weddings etc and slowly add extra kit as the money becomes available for use in the main film project. Both models are capable cameras, but I feel that the XL2 will offer far more options to add different lenses etc and control during the 'major' film, and it will also deliver superb results - even during low light levels - for the wedding shoots if you use it correctly.

Matthew Nayman April 22nd, 2006 06:16 AM

I'll trade you my $20,000 XL2 package for a mint condition 68 mustang... :P

Dude, I would keep the car and buy a cheaper camera!

Greg Boston April 22nd, 2006 07:10 AM

Plus, you can get good used XL-2 cameras without having to swallow a large price tag.

Mine may be up for sale soon. I am trying to determine whether I want to start shooting HD just yet. Attending the Texas HD Shootout didn't help cause I got to work with some awesome camera gear and am getting more tempted.

-gb-

Bob Zimmerman April 22nd, 2006 07:20 AM

Go with the XL2 and do some wedding on the side.

Marko Urbic April 22nd, 2006 08:40 AM

I won't tell you what to do, but I'll share my previus dillemas.

Started doing weddings with an XM2 and after some time decided it's time to get a 2nd camera.
I was not pleased with the XM2 lowlight performance so I was in a doubt:
- go with the Sony's proved lowlight performance or go with the XL2's proved best MiniDv performance, manual controls and great optical stabilisation.

After reading tons of posts on this great forum, I went with the XL2 and I'm very pleased I did.
The XL2 performs very nice in lowlight, you just have to study it's controls and manual presets.

Matthew Nayman April 23rd, 2006 12:32 PM

What kind of shape is your mustang in that yo uwould sell it for $8000?

Mathieu Ghekiere April 23rd, 2006 02:42 PM

It's funny, more people here seem to be interested in the Mustang then in the original dillemma :-D

Matthew Nayman April 23rd, 2006 03:05 PM

Well, being an autophile, a 67 Mustang is something very dear to my heart.

However, so is the Canon XL2. Therefore... both in one topic, Aye Carumba!

Connor Roberts April 23rd, 2006 03:33 PM

You can get a Panasonic HVX200 with a 120GB harddrive for $6,500 - $7,000

This would give you a far superior camera to the Canon, and features like variable framerates, etc..., I mean just look at this sample HVX footage and THEN tell me you still want a Canon...

http://motivitypictures.com/hvx200/m..._snow_day.html

::: Connor

Ash Greyson April 23rd, 2006 04:13 PM

HVX is indeed HD but it is not a HUGE difference from an XL2 and there are other factors. The cost is more than double and the workflow will be more expensive once you add reliable redundant back-ups, something you HAVE to do to work professionally and safely. Prolly looking at a $10k investment.

When I am done with this project I am working on I will post some XL2 footage I cut into Varicam and HVX footage, you will be pretty stunned how well it holds up. I didnt use anything fancy, just intantHD...



ash =o)

Dale Guthormsen April 23rd, 2006 10:25 PM

comparison
 
Ash,


I am truly looking forward to the comparison footage you talk of!!!

Can't wait!

Thanks in advance!!!

Bob Zimmerman April 23rd, 2006 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Connor Roberts
You can get a Panasonic HVX200 with a 120GB harddrive for $6,500 - $7,000

This would give you a far superior camera to the Canon, and features like variable framerates, etc..., I mean just look at this sample HVX footage and THEN tell me you still want a Canon...

http://motivitypictures.com/hvx200/m..._snow_day.html

::: Connor

very nice footage

Bob Zimmerman April 23rd, 2006 10:32 PM

Ash did you use a XL2 for "Strong Enough to Break"? I watch it at your website. It looks good.

Neil Fontaine April 24th, 2006 12:38 AM

re
 
Wow! That HVX200 footage looks awsome. I am truely impressed.

I would recomended taking the safe road. Sooner or later you will get the money to make the movie. If you take a big chance you will be left with camera equipement, that sould be able to film weddings. I mean if you can shoot a film with it why not weddings?

Ruben Mendez April 24th, 2006 06:46 AM

Made a decision
 
First thanks for the responses: Tony, Bob, Marko, and Neil, I was really second guessing myself until I read what you had to say. It reminded me of the goal for the year, to make a film. So Im going to have my old job get me the XL2. Connor, your the second person that has said the HVX is a better camera/value. But I cant afford to spend all of the money on just a camera. So now Im trying to get as much equipment as possible with the rest of the money, this is were I am at, tell me what you think.

7000.00
- 3519.00 XL2 (discount) - Canon
499.00 40gb Firestore - Canon
200.00 100gb hard drive (to upgrade firestore with) - probably newegg
103.00 external battery pack (firestore) - Battery space.com
258.90 Porta brace CTC-3 case - B&H
100.00 2 used iRiver 895 mp3 player (use as wireless mics) - ebay
164.90 JVC shot gun mic (will trade for audio tech AT897) - B&H
*670.10 Bogen 3182 - B&H (is there something better within price range)
*180.00 2 BP 945 batteries - Canon
*127.00 CH 910 Dual Charger/holder - Canon
--------
1178.10 left

*items Im not sure about. Is there a better tripod setup within the 700.00 price range. Also, Im thinking I would prefer longer life camera batteries that can also power a camera light and shot gun mic. Is there a cheaper alternative to AB stuff. What is a good on camera light (for the wedding reception), what a good stabilizer for the XL2. In general If there is better/wiser equipment to by around the XL2, let me know. Most of the things I chose were for the intention of using for weddings. Thought I plan on using the firestore for my film. thanks again, this site is awsome, I'm learning so much just reading these threads.
Also, I need to start connecting with prospective Dps, casting directors, and editors. The goal is to shoot a very low budget movie around the end of the year, The story is a cross between Drugs Store Cowboy and The Outsiders, if anyone has a serious interest let me know.
Ruben

Mathew,
I had a 67 fastback that got side swiped by some idiot in a hurry to a dodger game in 2000. thinking I could recoup some of my money I bought a 68 coupe body and started putting the useable parts in from the 67. But as I was getting into it I decided to restore the car the best that I could for the experience. I knew I would lose money on the car so I did everything myself to save some money. (except painting exterior and engine work) So the car has no sentimental value to me, but I would like to use it in my movie. Anyway the car's value is from 8,000 to 10,000 if I want to sell it quickly, which I do. I put about 12,000 into it not including all my time. The car is NOT stock, does not have matching numbers/papers and all the other stuff that would raise its value, but its a good bang for the buck car that looks tuff and has about 100 more horse power than a stock 289 does.

The car was a straight six, I put a 302 HiPo engine from an 1986 GT, heads
are from a 65 289 (more compression).
I put front disk brakes from a 67 Granada, (new power boster and pedal are
from a 67)
Replaced/rebuilt all the other engine components (starter, 4 brl carb, electric
dist, power stearing etc..)
Replaced all front suspension, put in larger rear end, new dual exhaust.
Replaced/refurbished all interior parts, added six disk changer with a four
speaker set up. The car is painted midnight blue. Though the paint is not a
clear coat, the guy (was related to my friend, ripped me off, long story
about drugs) who painted the car used a polyurethane instead. And Im not
going to lie to a prospective buyer about that or the blend of parts that I
used. So thats why its not worth more, because its not stock. If someone
can explain to me how I can link some pictures here I will. Is there a perticular year that you prefer. My dream car is the 67 fastback which I had and will have again.
Oh and if some one can explain to me also how to link this short Im almost finished wish to here. Its a cheesy spoof on evil dead and friday the 13th that includes sponge bob square pants. Its was suppose to be a 5 min. deal, but turned into a 45 min cheesy fake looking attack of the killer tomatos thing.
later
Ruben

Tony Davies-Patrick April 24th, 2006 07:02 AM

I've found that good quality radio/wireless mics are very important...don't try and cut corners with these items or audio quality will suffer. I now use the Sony 800 Freedom (805 WRT & 805 WRR) series (superb!), but the Sony UWP and Senhiesser radio systems are also quite good.

The 20X lens image stabiliser will help in a lot of situations during shoulder shooting, but a good quality tripod is also a must-have item, so make sure that the one you choose is rock solid (generally the heavier the tripod and head, the steadier the tripod) - search Ebay for high-end used tripods at good prices. A panhandle remote control is also vital (I use the Manfrotto/Bogen 522C version).

Ash Greyson April 24th, 2006 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Zimmerman
Ash did you use a XL2 for "Strong Enough to Break"? I watch it at your website. It looks good.


No, that was shot on a hodge-podge, most of the time I shot with an XL1s but there is also some TRV-900, 1CCD stuff, etc. in there. Due to the nature of the doc I only shot about 2/3rds of the stuff, the rest was various people I had take a camera into a restaurant, meeting, etc. places where it was not appropriate/comfortable to have a shooter.

All that being said, even though it is ALL 60i, I have yet to hear a single, "it looks too video" comment.


ash =o)




PS looks like I am very close to distribution, some theaters, then IFC/HBO, then DVD by early Sept.

Brian K Jones April 24th, 2006 01:58 PM

Ash,
I too am very interested in seeing your comparison footage with the Instant HD. I am trying to find as much info about the real world use of the Instant HD program.

Matthew Nayman April 25th, 2006 07:35 AM

I might suggest that the 3X lens is indespensible, as the 20X is not nearly wide enough in many cases.

As for the car, sounds really interesting. I can see how if it's pretty much just a mustang body, it could go for $10,000. I would love to see some pics. I myself have always wanted a 67 fastback, but my dream car is a 1967 Shelby Cobra with the passenger seat molded over into the body and a single roll bar behind the driver.
Silver, white stripe. Saw one once, fell in love.

Ash Greyson April 26th, 2006 01:35 AM

I used the InstantHD for some XL2 b-roll insert shots and it worked flawlessly. They were upped to 720p and dumped to DVCproHD tapes. I will post something in the next couple weeks.


ash =o)

Hunter Sandison April 29th, 2006 07:46 PM

Hey Reuben,
If you decide to go the feature route I offer my and my XL2 package's services.
Good Luck,
-Hunter


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