Just remember, a dropout in SD is just a minor annoynance as it may only affect one frame.

A dropout in HDV means that you lose many frames. I do not remember how many but it seems like you lose about 1/2 second.

I have been pleased with the Panasonic AY-DVM63MQ which are about $5.00 each (in quantity) now.

From what I have read, when recording or playing a MiniDV (or HDV) type tape, a coating (similiar to varnish) coats the heads.

The tape cleaning, ideally, just removes this unwanted coating on your heads.

In the real world, no one knows exactly when to stop the tape cleaning process. My best advice is the following the tape cleaning instructions precisely! If there is no coating on the heads, then the cleaning process does wear down the heads.

Canon's manual is not very precise as to how often one should clean the heads.

John you're actually right on that theory. Switching the brand of tape does change lubricants and could potentially cause trouble with your heads!

You're 100% correct Ken, I've lost stunning footage due to dropout in the past and it's a terrible feeling, like going over a speed-trap!!! Only this one hurts more in the end!!!

I can't comfirm this, but I was told by a major camera store in Los Angeles that Sony MiniDV Premium was designed for use in single chip cameras, and Sony MiniDV Excellence should be used with 3 chip cameras to take advantage of the advanced technology. In any case, if you decide not to get HD tape, at least switch to Excellence. I don't own a XL H1, but I use one on paid shoots, and all the tape used is Sony PHDVM63DM Digital Master. Tape is the cheapest part of your trip, and some of the shots you might get, will never happen again, even if you could afford to go back. Just my thoughts......

Hi,
I'm using Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ with great results so far. A Canon rep. told me they will do fine (exactly as the Canon labeled tapes) and cost me about USD 8 + VAT each.
I have had really bad results with Sony audio tapes in the past so I didn't want to put my money in the pocket of Sony. According to what I have heard Sony used wet lubrication compared to many others who used dry lubrication. Perhaps the wet lubrication isn't wet anymore after some years of storage.
I cannot play my old Sony ULH tape recordings without a terrible hissing sound which goes all the way into the tape recorders head and out through the loudspeakers! Sony replaced my first tapes after several years admitting they had trouble. Then they gave me new tapes (blanks - I lost my recordings). The same happened to these new tapes after 10 years.
But let's talk digital video tapes. Many have bad experience if they switch between different tape lubrications. I would put my cent on a dry tape - think it is more stable over time but it is just a guess.
I suggest you buy a quality tape and stay with it. And don't let any dust enter the tape or tape chamber in your camera if possible.
Good luck. Let's see if any of us can play our tapes after 10 or 20 years!

Over 100 tapes in 8 months with Sony Digital master tapes - cleaned heads twice during that time - one drop-out (which I believe may have really been a time code glitch since it occured right at the beginning of a shot and wouldn't allow me to batch capture)...

I used to be a Sony guy, but here at the U. we've been using
Panasonic AY-DVM63PQ and I have found this stock to be much
more reliable (using MiniDV) than Sony, including, Premium,
Excellence and Digital Master DVCAM.

When I bought the H1 I decided to switch and go with Panasonic.

So far so good.

YMMV :)

So what is the concensus??? I just ordered my camera and I need to know.

This may just be a silly question, but can the quality of the tape affect the noise level in the video image?

Thanks

no, the issue is not picture quality as all tapes will record identical digital information. It's just a matter of reliability - avoiding clogging of the heads and dropouts. Higher priced tapes are generally more durable and reliable.

Steven,

I don't think there is a concensus. My dealer - whom I trust, told me high end Sony's. Others say high end Panasonic.

I think that you could say...stick with the same brand of high end tapes (don't mix brands), and have the heads professionally cleaned reasonably often. Don't use a cleaning tape unless you're threatened at gunpoint, or you're stuck with no choice.

Great advice Ken thanks so much. I RARELY post here for two reasons. One I am such a rookie and don't want to bug people and second because I just try and absorb everythig I read. LOL

Again much thanks for your imput. It was very kind of you.

Tape stock for the xlh1
 

Any suggestions on what brand of make, to get the best HD > tape out of this camera?

cheers.

A.

ps. Is this ok?

http://www.aprmedia.com/product.php?pid=3373

im UK Based.

Andy, this has been discussed thousand times. If you do a search you'll find many threads, especially in "the long black line".
My tip will be to stay at the same brand all the time. No tapes gives you a better "image" cause it only zero and ones being stored on the tape.

Sorry forgot about the search function.

But why are some tapes branded mini dv HD and cost more?

They are supposedly made to higher standards to help reduce problems such as drop-outs. But, it is more important how you care for your camera and whatever tapes you use, than WHAT tape you use. It's all just 1's and 0's, no difference in image quality, color or anything else.

Now head off to "The Long Black Line" and have fun reading! :)

Mike

What tape stock do you recomend please?
 

Hi all,
This is an amazing forum, congratulations on it.
However, for me it has brought so many questions to my mind.
I almost feel I bought something I'll never get used to.

In the meantime, having bought the camera and read about drop out etc here...I am confused as to what tape stock to buy for this camera.

Can anyone please recommend - please?

Thanks
Dave

Hi Dave,

Welcome to the forum. I only ever use Sony HDV 63min Digital Master Tapes and have never had a drop out. I am sure others will give you their advice.

Regards

Mick.

I've used Panasonic MQ and AMQ without any problems - quite a bit cheaper than HDV branded tapes (of course, Panasonic doesn't do HDV) but very high quality.

Choose one tape stock and stick to it, that's the main thing. Enjoy.

Dave , I agree with Mick. I've only used the Sony HDV 63min. Digital master tapes. Have never seen a dropout. But also do what Josh suggests....pick a manufacturer and stay with the brand.

Also...nice thing about the Sony HDV...comes in a library case...so It's bigger than than a typical DV tape for labeling...etc.

Welcome to the forum !!!

Panasonic AMQ for me and zero dropouts after 50 over pcs. Just remember to stick to the same tape stock and do not switch brands.

Cheers

WeeHan

For whatever it is worth the new AMQ boxes tout HDV on the label.

The important thing to remember is that a dropout in HDV can be much worse than in DV because of long-GOP compression. Higher-quality (i.e. more expensive) tapes are less susceptible to this, so if you can't afford dropouts it should be an easy decision.

Thanks...
 

Well folks, at least I know I need to buy the best I can afford (Sony or Panasonic) - think it'll be sony - only because I have some already and that keeps me in tune with the afforseaid advice to stay common.

Thanks for the advice and tips - you have all been very helpful.
(Love the "This Is Not My Life" (2007) Destrophy video)...

Cheers
Dave

This is a frequently discussed topic, so I've now merged a number of separate threads into a single one.

MARKETING!

Anyone who believes that they need HDV tapes throw away money. I have shot dozens of tapes and did not have a single dropout. Just buy A brand tapes and stick to the same brand. I use the Panasonic AY-DVM63AMQ tape stock. It is around $4 per tape and not a single drop-out so far.

If I would have bought HDV tapes I would have wasted $400 or more.

So my advice: stick with professional grade DV tape.

As long as we're making sweeping generalizations, I'll say anyone who believes HDV tapes are a waste of money just hasn't experienced one of those HDV dropouts that ruins a one-of-a-kind, irreplaceable shot. Spend any significant amount of time shooting HDV on those cheap tapes and you will, it's a statistical certainty.

I took the cheap route on this documentary I filmed 70+ hours of footage for, using 3$ Sony DVs then $5 Panasonics(cleaning the heads in-between for good measure). Despite keeping my camera and case very clean and dust-free, I've experienced at least 1 or 2 dropouts on almost every single tape- sometimes ruining a great shot.

I've switched to HDV Digital Masters and haven't experienced a dropout yet. Sure they are pricey, but since our projects are destined for broadcast we have to manage that risk.

My advice? If you can't afford ruined shots, buy professional HDV tapes. Even at $15 a pop it's still the most economical way to get HD.

Horses 4 courses
 

Have to agree, spent all that money on a good camera only to lose the point on the tapes. A bit like a formula 1 racing car running on diesel or setting yourself up as an executive cheaffuer with a tandem...

Thanks for the ttimely reminder....
dave

But you used different tape stocks (brands). And each brand uses different chemicals which has a negative effect on playback.

My camera is only eating Panasonic tapes. At this moment, I see no reason to buy the expensive tapes. And when I am shooting a critical project, I would rather use a Firestore so I have a 1:1 back-up. Problem solved.

And you will earn back the Firestore after 100 tapes.

I tend to agree with your logic Floris

Personally I don't regard the Panasonic MQs or AMQs as "cheap", they're very good quality tapes, just less expensive than Sony branded HDV tapes.

I depend on the Panasonic tapes for my livelihood, and like a lot of others on these boards, have experienced zero dropouts with HDV material.

I'm personally allergic to Sony tapes after bad experiences in the past, albeit with their bottom end tapes. Obviously the HDV line are high quality, but I do suspect Sony and others are making a killing on them. Do they really cost that much more to manufacture than premium DV tapes?

Is that fact? I've heard others say it but never seen hard data. I've also heard the exact opposite, that tape chemical/lubricant incompatibility is not an issue these days. All I can go on is firsthand experience.

<<My camera is only eating Panasonic tapes. At this moment, I see no reason to buy the expensive tapes. And when I am shooting a critical project, I would rather use a Firestore so I have a 1:1 back-up. Problem solved.>>

That is one approach; but if your backup tape may have dropouts it's not quite 1:1, "problem solved".

Bottom line, just do what your personal priorities dictate in regards to buying tape.

I've seen this discussion before...but it goes back to the VHS and HIFI VHS days. Why the big separation between a 2 dollar tape and a 14 dollar tape ?

Although the formula for the tape can be IDENTICAL...there is one major difference....WHERE IT CAME FROM ...on the manufacturing reel.

See, videotape is linear..obviously...and it gets manufactured on a large reel...like a roll of toilet paper. So imagine...the videotape near the hub, or the inner most part, is ultimately compressed with the weight of the rest of the roll.

The outer most videotape is actually stretched slightly ...because of the total diameter of the roll. So the real good stuff...or the "meat" of the quality tape is in the middle.

Sure, they sell the tape near the hub and the outside...but that's not the premium stuff. The premium videotape is that center cut.

Makes sense to me and I have to agree that with HDV and DV...buying the quality or more expensive tape has always provided me with excellent results.

I did try to change from Fuji tape to Panasonic tape on our DVX100A...PISSED. Wow...couldn't figure it out. Talked with our engineer and he replied the same as everyone in this forum has....STICK WITH ONE TAPE.

Anyhow...the roll of videotape was explained to me by a Fuji salesman at NAB many years ago. I can only assume that videotape manufacturing hasn't changed in the way they "accumulate" the tape...but obviously the materials, binding processes, etc... have changed.

Food for thought....but it seemed no one addressed this "quality " issue with why certain tapes are more expensive than others...in the same manufacturers product line. I hope this does.

Tape quality is the subject of numerous recurring threads on this forum and the tape manufacturing process, center cut vs. outside, etc. actually has been described by others in several threads; but what it implies is a higher grade material with decreased risk of errors.

If anyone has actual scientific data on chemicals, lubricants, and compatibility re. DV and HDV tape, that might help demystify this topic.

I would ask to impossible
 

It would be great if manufacturers could show some compassion (and sense) and put some info up here - or anywhere else come to that about their tapes / processes etc...

For now we have to rely on the friendship of those willing to submit what they know - and that is exceptionally valuable to me.