Firestore fs-4 with XLH1?
 

I have two FS-4's upgraded to HD, and was wondering if anyone has used one with the XLH1.I rented a Sony Z1 and the fs-4 worked fine. Before I make my final decision on the XLH, I wanted to check if it would work with the FS 4.
Thanks
Bruce Yarock

Can you record HD and not HDV to the firestore with canon?

I'm pretty sure it records the same thing to the firestore as it does to tape-hdv. When I trid it with the Sony, I ended up with m2t. files, and was able to edit easily in PPRO 2.0.
I think I'll call Videonics (Firestore) and ask them also. But I was really interested in finding out if somebody here is using this set up.
Bruce Yarock

I was told by the Focus rep here in Switzerland that the FS-4 HD will simply record MPEG-2 transport streams (i.e. m2t files as mentioned before). As long as your NLE-system can handle these files (FCP can't, for example), there shouldn't be a problem with basic operation.

AFAIK, the list of compatible cameras published by Focus refers to cameras that can fully control the FS-4 (i.e. start/stop). I've been able to use the FS-4 on many 'incompatible' DV-devices (including ADCs) without a problem, but needed to start/stop recording manually. To what extent the same applies to HDV, I don't know, but I assume that the situation is the same as with DV.

HTH,

Ron

Ron,
The Sony files were m2t, and Premiere Pro 2.0 handled them with no problems. As long as the XLH1 creates the same files, it should work ok.
Bruce Yarock

Agreed. And it will very likely be so - after all, it's an MPEG-2 transport stream that travels through the FireWire with HDV. It shouldn't even matter whether it's 60i/50i/30F/25F/24F - heck, the FS-4 Pro might even be able to play back the frame-modes. Does anyone know?

Focus announced two new firestore units this week - FS C-HD60 and HD100 that are specifically designed for the XL H1. They record DTE files that are said to be compatible with most NLEs.

I cannot find which NLE's specifically.

Unfortunately, I specifically queried the Focus guys here at NAB about Canon XL H1 F-mode support, and was told that do NOT support it. So even the upcoming FS-C will not do Canon 24F or 30F. My subjective impression from the discussion was that it just isn't on their radar screen, making me think that Focus' H1 support will remain limited to 60i for quite some time.

Jesus, how hard is it to write a reverse pulldown script? What's going on with Canon's cadence that Apple and Focus can't seem to get their act together to support it?

Interesting, I've been using the CitiDisk HDV for some weeks with the XL H1 and I shoot in the 25F mode. I use Cineform's HDLink to transform the m2t files to avi files and edit with Premiere Pro 2.0. Have not observed any problems.

25F is a completely different world. It's just there without "pulldown" in a 50i stream.

Maybe this boils down to an issue of what's officially 'supported' and what's not. E.g. the FS-4 does not officiall support DVCPro25, but if you choose raw DV as the file format, recording DVCPro25 works just fine. Anyone with first-hand experience with XL-H1 frame modes on the FS-4 HD?

Good luck getting an answer out of anyone on this issue. I've been wondering myself for a long time and still can't get a straight answer.

Here's what is strange, Pete -- I asked Canon's product development manager the same question as he was showing me the FS-C in the Canon booth, and he said it *does* support the Frame modes. Looks like I'll have to check with my contacts at Focus for a clarification.

Definitely worth a re-check, Chris.

A Focus guy at the Canon booth referred me to another specific guy downstairs at the actual Focus area (sorry, at this point I don't remember names) to answer the question aout the upcoming FS-C...but I still kind of didn't get the warmest fuzzy about the answer. Seems amazing they wouldn't be trying to support it; maybe I ended up talking to the wrong guy and he just didn't want to say, "I dunno." ;-)

Could it have been Matt McEwen that he was referring you to? The way Canon's PD manager explained it to me made perfect sense... that Frame mode is transparent to the FS-C, that the FS-C wouldn't care if the incoming video was Frame mode or not. It's just a bit for bit copy of what goes to tape (or would have gone to tape if there's no tape in the cam). Meaning that yes, it's fully compatible with Frame mode video. But I would like to hear Focus verify that for us.

Could have been Matt, but really not sure.

Anyway, it really is muddy. The XL H1 manual is a bit unclear, but I think from earlier discussions we've had on the forum about Frame Mode support in products like Cineform, it appears that the H1 manual is trying to tell us that during playback from 24F tape, the 1394 port sends out a pulldown 60i, but during live recording, the signal to both tape and the 1394 port is 24fps progressive. If correct, I could see how that 24p m2t data stream could be a problem for a device expecting a 60i signal...just as the existing HDV tape decks don't handle this variant of the HDV format. Cineform, for instance, updated their software to read the Canon 24F and 30F data streams.

The current Firestores ask you to pick a format from the list on the LCD...if your 1394 output doesn't match the spec, I don't know what happens. Since I'm not a Firestore user, can someone who uses an FS-4Pro confirm that it cannot handle 24F? If it can't, that fits with the discussion I had with Focus and leads me to believe that they haven't added explicit support. I do hope that is incorrect, though!

Pete, Chris,

Maybe the problem is in how different people understand word "compatible". If Canon says the FS-C and XL H1 are not compatible, they likely say that all details do not work as they should. And particularly, they mean the HDV frame mode playback from FS-C to XL H1 is not available -which applies to the CitiDISK HDVas well. But as Chris seems to suggest, the other way there are no problems in storing the frame mode signal from XL H1 to the recorder -which again, is the case with CitiDISK HDV.

We've lost standards in the modern world. The screws from one company do not fit properly with the bolts of another one. It's time consuming to try to figure out, how things work out in reality. And one can't rely on the ads; They never explain the critical issues, and in this sense, even Canon is not fully reliable -which is sad. The good thing is that in the modern world there are forums like this one, in which people can share their experience.

I can't believe Focus doesn't have someone on these boards moderating disinformation about their products.

They do, typically it's Matt McEwen, but he probably hasn't quite recovered from Vegas yet. NAB was grueling for everyone. Focus was busy every time I went by there.

FS-4 and XL-H1
 

Gentleman. According to TapeWorks Texas inc.'s sources (mainly our Canon USA Representative), you are correct, the FS-4 is not wholly compatible with the Canon XL-H1 and its various record modes, at this time...However
Canon has been in touch with Focus regarding this incompatibility and are providing a solution. All current owners of the FS-4 will be able to purchase an upgrade from their local Focus Enhancements Dealer. No word yet on the cost or availability.
With TapeWorks Texas inc. promotion that includes the FS-4 with the purchase a XL-H1, Canon will actually be shipping this upgrade with the HDD DTE recorder to TapeWorks Texas inc. who will in turn ship it out to our clients at NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE.
Feel free to contact TapeWorks Texas inc. toll free regarding this information
@866.827.3489. Ask for Scott or Jason