Ken, with "a reference that might", can you be more specific. My computer is very slow. Cheers PC

The link points to the Canon Camera Museum site. The XL1S was introduced July, 2001.

and the discount on the XL1 ends June 30th. Hmmmm.

Probably next year at NAB ;)

We have just had a price reduction here in Australia of $A1000 so it could be close, as the XL1s was 3 years after XL1 & another 3 years is up, right? Ah, we're just a bunch of kids really but at least we act young. PC

So, contrary to the popular axiom so often touted here, is someone who *knows* *saying*? :)

By the way for what it's worth, I think native 16x9 and 24p are great and necessary features. But if it's not HD, I won't be upgrading from the GL2 for that. I'll wait to see what Sony comes up with in the HDV realm.

<<<-- Originally posted by Jacques Mersereau :
Probably next year at NAB ;) -->>>

Thats almost a full year away! I hope it's not that long...

A$1000 drop on the xl1s? Hmm, might be time to sell my XM2 and upgrade to the XL1s, over the DVX100a which I'm currently planning. The look of the Canon is sweet and to be honest, quite a factor for me as I shoot news style stuff and would like a camera that looked more "pro' without shelling out 10K or more!

Aaron

Peter

That's an understandable position to take, but you might be in for a bit of a wait there. Based on the news from NAB, it looks like it's going to be very late this year, or most likely sometime next year, before any manufacturer is ready to ship a significant HDV camcorder.

"it looks like it's going to be very late this year, or most likely sometime next year, before any manufacturer is ready to ship a significant HDV camcorder."

So Chris, are you saying that the XL2 will not be a 'significant HDV camcorder'?

:)

-Luis

IMO, He is saying that the XL2 will not be HDV at all! :-)

All I'm saying is that according to what I learned from walking around the NAB 2004 show floor, and visiting Panasonic, Sony and JVC, all of whom were showing HDV "prototypes" but stating nothing would be ready until fourth-quarter 2004 at the very earliest, is that nobody should expect to see a major HDV offering until then. Canon as usual is tight-lipped about the whole thing, but again, look at your history.

History is important. You can learn a lot from history. History tells you where you are going and when future things are most likely to happen. Look at the history of DV. Sony came out with the VX1000 in early 1995. When did Canon introduce a DV camcorder? Not until November 1997. I believe it's important to study history, but then again, I'm a geek. So there.

Sounds like the XL2 won't be HDV, based on where the market is now. Since HDV is so close, though, I think it's at least worth waiting for for other cameras. I just wish I knew *what* I was waiting for. That's why I very much dislike the secrecy. From a marketing standpoint I think it causes me, at least, to say, "the hell with them, I'll set my sights on something that's definitely coming rather than hope for some upgrade I know really nothing about."

Hi Peter, you wrote:

<<<Sounds like the XL2 won't be HDV, based on where the market is now.>>>

If the XL2 comes out equipped (as I personally hope it will) with HD SDI
output and uses Canon 35mm glass,
I for one will be SUPER happy that it is NOT HDV native. HDV
looks good as long as you're doing talking heads, but when it comes
to action shots, nature/wildlife, color correction, etc. HDV is at best a
delivery format IMHO. HDV is MUCH more consumer than DV.

HD 292M is the real deal. Uncompressed 601
NTSC SDI output would work for me too, but real HD is what I've
seen and what I want. Remember, you can always compress the hell
out of HD and get HDV as the result, but you cannot go the other way.

From the camera, a single BNC jack w/
HD SDI output could go directly into a computer at super high quality.
Once in the computer, the video can be turned into just about anything
because you have gobs of resolution to play with. HDV will have macro blocks
like queen sized bed sheets.

When necessary, you can still take your storage over to a post house that has
expensive decks for real tape (D5/HDCAM/DVCPro100) recording.

<<<Since HDV is so close, though, I think it's at least worth waiting for for other cameras. >>>

It's always best to wait, because there is always something better planned.
But, I would suggest going to the alternate image area here and see what
is going on with a couple of the community members. I personally would
rather work with uncompressed 4:4:4 12bit NTSC (1gigbps?) and blow that up to HD using a box like Terenex's Volare than 25 megbps HDV.

<<<I just wish I knew *what* I was waiting for. That's why I very much dislike the secrecy. From a marketing standpoint I think it causes me, at least, to say, "the hell with them, I'll set my sights on something that's definitely coming rather than hope for some upgrade I know really nothing about.">>>

Exactly. Even if something super new/cool comes out, it is still best to wait
and see that is for real and not hype. Buy the 2nd round ala DVX100a.

The new JVC 'pro' shoulder cam
is still going to have a price of $20K according to JVC. Is that the kind
of money YOU want to spend for marginal
'fools most of them, but not the pros' quality?

Not me, I hope Canon has it's sites set WAY up there.

I agree, looking at history will show a company's patterns, and will show us where they might be headed.

Granted, we don't have much in the way of 'dv history' to go by, since the XL1 has only been in the game since 1997 as Chris pointed out. But, since we're speculating, I thought it would be interesting to point out that Canon doesn't seem to have a history of doing small upgrades on cameras more than once.

In 1991 the L1 camera was introduced.
The L1 camera was upgraded to the L2 some years later (I can't find the date).

Then it was transformed by a major change into the XL1 DV camera in 1997.

The XL1 was upgraded to the XL1-S in 2001.

If we go by this pattern, it seems that the next incarnation of the XL1s will be a major transformation of the camera as we now know it. I'm not saying that means it will be an HDV camera, but I do believe that it will be a marked difference from the XL1-s.
And, in keeping with their history, the camera will probably not be called the 'XL2', but will instead have a new prefix to differentiate it from the XL line.

So, from the short history we have, it seems that Canon has a tendency to upgrade cameras after 3-4 years, and then 3-4 years later transform them into entirely different models.

Hopefully this pattern will continue, and we'll see something very soon that will knock our socks off.

(although I wouldn't hold your breath for that HD SDI out, not at under 5K. Now you're just dreaming.)
:)

-Luis

PS.
In keeping with the intent of this thread, how about we add the option of wireless recording to an external hard disk to our list?

In case you think I'm crazy, here is an article from 1999:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/10...rewireless_up/

I would bet serious money Canon's next XL line will not have HD-SDI. That is going to stay in the pro realm forever just like digibeta. It's too much bits for consumers and not enough demand for the quality over HDV.