Overlay/frame buffer with Nvidia QuadroFX 5500 SDI
 

Hi!

I have a workstation with a QuadroFX 5500 SDI. I am getting preview on my SDI in several editing modes in PPro CS3, but nothing when working in a Cineform project.

I have (of course) checked the "Overlay" button in the Cineform prefs.

Anyone?

Cheers,
Fredrik
Paper Bag AS

Almost...
 

In NVIDIA Control Panel, under Video & Television - "When watching video content..." Select "Also show it full screen on my..."

But I am getting blanking on both monitors when I go in and out of "play mode". Scrubbing is fine and it plays fine too, but with terrible blanking, unfortunately...

I have the same problem. I am using a Quadro FX 1500 to output to a second monitor. Whenever play or stop is pressed, the screen goes garbled for a second or two.

I've contacted cineform about this and they have acknowledged that it is an issue on their end. Unfortunately, a solution is not likely; they said that AspectHD simply doesn't handle dual-monitor output very effectively (or at least with these cards). They did mention that ProspectHD wouldn't have this problem, but I am hesitant to fork out an additional 500$ just to get a minor glitch fixed.

The glitch occurs because the output resolution changes between timeline playback vs. scubbing. (I know this because my monitor reports what resolution it is being sent). So I'm surprised to hear Cineform was accepting the blame - as I've always considered it due to the interaction between Premiere and the videocard driver. It is quite annoying.

Hmm.. Excepting all the blame, no quite, NVidia can take a big piece of that. Prospect HD with an AJA card is seamless, Prospect/Aspect HD with a Maxtrox card next best, then ATI and then way down this list is NVidia. The further the card manufacturer is from the professional video market the worse their products are for profession video (pretty logical.) We have to work around NVidia issues all the time, it is a waste of engineering. We are trying to move to other monitoring sources like Blackmagic Intensity and Decklink cards, leaving the computer graphics card for what is was designed for -- desktop acceleration and games.

David- for those of us who do not need expensive capture cards, HDSDI I/O, etc., can we add a Blackmagic Intensity card to the exisiting graphics card (nVidea, whatever) setup, and monitor HD overlay via Intensity's HDMI out to a HDTV monitor?? Is the old graphics card still going to be a limiting factor?
I've managed O.K. with the nVidea Quadro 1500, but I would like to improve the monitoring end of my system- as simply as possible though.
What's your advice?

Robert, in fact we're working on monitoring using Blackmagic Intensity. Unfortunately Blackmagic has some problems with their drivers that they haven't helped us with. This has slowed down our effort. But monitoring with Intensity - is something we intend to support. As it is an inexpensive card it will be a good solution for all.

[QUOTE=... leaving the computer graphics card for what is was designed for -- desktop acceleration and games.[/QUOTE]

Hello. The nVidia QuadroFX SDI is a professional card used to monitoring high-quality video. It is used by companies such as Assimilated, Autodesk, DaVinci, Iridas, Nucoda, etc. for conform and color grading.
Why can not be used by Cineform?

Because most of video is YUV, and NVidia gets YUV wrong. We have added an option to drive the overlay in RGB, then NVidia get the correct color, still has the annoying flash.

Re monitoring with Blackmagic Intensity: Is there any hint that BM is actually working on upgrading their driver to be compatable with ProspectHD??
Or, is this too "back burner" to be expecting anything in the near future?

We would like a BM driver fix, but we are going try for a solution that doesn't require their input.

Terrific!! That means it will happen.

Sorry, Mr. Newman, but I was referring to the output of high-quality SDI video card QuadroFX SDI (which is 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 YCrCb, 8 or 10 bit).

The only thing I would say to that is this--when I'm in a non-Cineform project, Adobe handles scrubbing and output just fine. No glitch. What is happening that's making Nvidia unhappy with Cineform and not with Adobe?

Our pipeline is designed for editing performance and uses the standard overlay surface, which has got less support with NVidia cards in the last year or so. Adobe is not likely using the overlay surface. My new NVidia card (came with my new PC -- I wouldn't have choosen it) will sometimes play black with MediaPlayer, that is an NVidia bug with overlay. One day we will code around it, but we have to do it without loosing performance --more difficult than what Adobe did

People are definitely using Nvidia in the "professional video" world. We have Assimilate SCRATCH on the same system, and that is a lot more "professional" than Cineform, sorry for saying.

There is supposedly a bug with Blackmagic products (for what, two years now?!) and now there is a bug in the Nvidia drivers as well. I am a little dissappointed, to say the least.

I know that you try to cater the RED users with your solutions; I have a question:
What kind of (dual head) GPU do you think will be in most of the Windows RedCine-boxes out there? Don't you think it would be smart to have working solutions around these setups? I know alot of people who are definitely NOT getting Matrox cards...

EDIT: Seems like monitoring isn't Cineforms strongest side... http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=115382

And your point is? We know all of this. We don't have the resources to chase after card vendor peculiarities, when most of our customers are not impacted. We do plan to address monitor concerns under Premiere in various ways, some many even help NVidia. We currently support ATI, Matrox, NVidia (many cards), AJA (capture and monitoring) and BlackMagic (HDLink capture.) Adding more when we can.

Nearly all of the cards you mentioned that cineform works with are IO cards that are in the 1000$ + range. I don't need IO, I use firewire and just need good monitoring. And after hearing that Nvidia was the better route to go (on forums like these), I went with them. Is there a list of Non-IO cards (or maybe I should say 'O' cards) that Cineform supports dual-monitoring on the Cineform site?

Most sub-$200 cards work, ATI particularly, even most NVidia. The problem arrose with the newer high-end NVidia cards that removed overlay support, the mechanism we use for dual screen monitoring. There is always the compromise with your current card, simply have a desktop that is two monitors wide, and fill the program monitor on the second screen (that we did at NAB.)

David
I'm definitely thinking that your idea would be a terrific solution for us "non-I/O" users: to get the emphasis off of the graphics card for monitoring, and focused instead on an inexpensive solution like the BM Intensity HDMI output to monitor.

Robert, we totally agree.

Overlay
 

Like so many here, I've been through the ringer trying to figure out the monitoring issue. I recently put together a new system (went with ATI 3850) but spent a huge amount of time trying to figure it all out, reading this and other forums. Now, since this is the weak issue of Cineform (along with color correction, imho, as I find monitoring with both Cineform and Color Finesse to be difficult) wouldn't it be nice if there were a sticky or wiki or page on the Cineform website that spelled it all out? Start the thing out with the very important distinction between monitoring with a graphics card and with a 'video i/o' (?) card, like AJA etc. Then list what works and what doesn't, order of preference (aka David N's comments about AJA, Blackmagic, Matrox, ATI and then far down the list, Nvidia).

I often wonder, if a better format for these forums wouldn't include the permanence of a Wiki (or at least some very carefully worded, limited access sticky's) along with the jabberings of the rest of us.

Yes, it would be nice!

And meanwhile ... would you recommend the ATI3850?

Regarding the Gigabyte ATI 3850 (385512), so far, yes, I like it. After reading David N's comments regarding Nvidia, after my own experience with previous Nvidia cards and after coming to the realization that I detest the user interface of the Nvdia software, I choose to go ATI. I picked this model cause it's powerful enough and runs cool (unlike the 3870 or 4000 series). The overlay works all the time (unlike with the Nvidia card). And the software interface is simple, clean (unlike Nvidia's). So far, so good.

Thanks for that Stephen - with the ATI does the monitor still hiccup briefly going in and out of timeline playback?

Graham, I would suppose I get the same kinds of issues as others. There is a very quick hiccup with Cineform overlay, the aspect ratio changes (I'm using DV), I don't 'see' the color correction changes I've made (with Color Finesse) and there is no image with scrubbing (on the monitor). Without Cineform, overlay monitoring is excellent.