<<<-- Originally posted by Brad Hawkins : Sounds good. And if I decide I need more streams later I guess I can always upgrade.


"The best performance occurs when good memory speed (533MHz or better 800MHz) is meet with good CPU speed 2.5GHz (or greater), and good drive speed, two 7200rpm drives on a RAID 0." - David Newman

The question is: (and please excuse me if they are not phrased correctely as I'm not fully up to speed on different hardware configuration/capabilities)

Will it possible to upgrade to 800Mhz? I think not.

Also:
David, you mentioned that the external firewire drives can support less streams then the internal drives, particularly in regard to laptops but some computers are upgrading from firewire 400 to the faster 800. Will this effect the number of streams in a positive way?

If money was no object what desktop configuration would you personally purchase for Aspect HD? What laptop configuration/model would you purchase?

And lastly how much drive space will an hour of HD DV take up, using Aspect?

<<<-- Originally posted by Jonathan Sarno :
Will it possible to upgrade to 800Mhz? I think not.
-->>>

The requires a new motherboard, CPU, memory replacement -- about $800 worth of changes to an existing system (and far amount of work.) This assume you have all yours drives, a good video card, monitor(s) and Windows XP.

<<<--David, you mentioned that the external firewire drives can support less streams then the internal drives, particularly in regard to laptops but some computers are upgrading from firewire 400 to the faster 800. Will this effect the number of streams in a positive way?-->>>

Yes, if there are RAID solutions that use IEE1394b (i.e. s800), the drive performance will be very good.

<<<--If money was no object what desktop configuration would you personally purchase for Aspect HD? -->>>

Either upgrade a box from Alienware or VoodooPC (add a Maxtrox P720 and drives), or go will a completely integrated system like HD Cinema from www.applied-magic.com.

<<<--What laptop configuration/model would you purchase?-->>>

I'm still waiting for the faster systems. They only days away (I just need comfirmation before a can say who will be selling them.) We are arranging to test these new systems.

<<<--And lastly how much drive space will an hour of HD DV take up, using Aspect? -->>>

About 30GBytes per hour using the Cineform HD AVI codec (CFHD.)

About 30GBytes per hour using the Cineform HD AVI codec (CFHD.) -->>>

That's reasonable, considering it's hi-def but I shoot documentaries and work with high shooting ratios - l0 to 1 minimum.

Is Aspect considering or any other company for that matter, considering a low res offline low res-online version, like Apple has with the JPEG format.

I'm able to get 25 hours of low res on my powerbook G4, which is great when you are shooting on location.

<<<-- Originally posted by Jonathan Sarno :
Is Aspect considering or any other company for that matter, considering a low res offline low res-online version, like Apple has with the JPEG format. -->>>

CineForm's focus is on-line real-time HD editing. I imagine that there will be competitors that my use the low quality proxy file to edit HD. Those tools don't yet exist for HDV content.

<<<-- Originally posted by Jonathan Sarno : About 30GBytes per hour using the Cineform HD AVI codec (CFHD.) -->>>

Is Aspect considering or any other company for that matter, considering a low res offline low res-online version, like Apple has with the JPEG format.
-->>>

4HDV supports this type of editing because uncompressed simply is not feasible for most of us. It requires 300GB per HOUR of source.

At a 10:1 ratio, you would need terabytes!

Using 4HDV you need only 1.25GB per hour.

A couple questions about the Matrox P750. If I understand correctly, it will downconvert the 720/30p signal to NTSC 480/60i to be viewed on a 16:9 capable NTSC monitor? Is this simply a conversion of one of the "would be" rgb monitors into TV scan rate?

My next question is, could one of the monitor channels be driven at progressive 1280 x 720 with a 60hz refresh rate and feed a true HDTV monitor that accepted RGB? Would it be actual HD video with the proper color gamut, or just a facsimile of a "full screen" computer monitor signal?

I hope these questions make sense. I'm just trying to see if there is a way to scrub and see the actual color corrected image with full detail accurately and in the way it will look when it is output to DVHS.

Jay

<<<-- Originally posted by Jay Nemeth : A couple questions about the Matrox P750. If I understand correctly, it will downconvert the 720/30p signal to NTSC 480/60i to be viewed on a 16:9 capable NTSC monitor? Is this simply a conversion of one of the "would be" rgb monitors into TV scan rate?-->>>

The Maxtrox P750 correctly downconverts to 4:3 NTSC (S_Video) displays via letterboxing, or it can output to an native 16:9 capable NTSC display.

<<<--My next question is, could one of the monitor channels be driven at progressive 1280 x 720 with a 60hz refresh rate and feed a true HDTV monitor that accepted RGB? Would it be actual HD video with the proper color gamut, or just a facsimile of a "full screen" computer monitor signal?--->>>

The DVI outputs of the P750 would be same a the computer monitor -- I think. I'm unsure if there are differences between the DVI on HDTV and the DVI output from the Maxtrox card. You should email Maxtox for details.

RAM speed
 

David,

I'm trying to understand the RAM speed requirements. I am not finding RAM listed as 1066 RDRAM and only finding DDR rated at 400mhz. Do you get the 800mhz DDR rating because you use 2 channels of 400? Where does PC2700 fit into the whole mix? Is that fast enough?

Are 7200 RPM drives that are ATA 100 OK, or do they need to be SATA?

I'm not very computer savvy unfortunately.

Thanks,

Jay

Re: RAM speed
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Jay Nemeth : David,
I'm trying to understand the RAM speed requirements. I am not finding RAM listed as 1066 RDRAM and only finding DDR rated at 400mhz. -->>>

1066 RDRAM is now out I guess (last year fastest memory.) If you have a PC 6-18 months old it might be using this RAM -- it is still pretty fast -- effective 533MHz RAM.

<<<--Do you get the 800mhz DDR rating because you use 2 channels of 400? Where does PC2700 fit into the whole mix? Is that fast enough? -->>>

You are correct, 800MHz is the effective speed of dual 400MHz DDR. These days except no less than Dual DDR 400 on an 800MHz FSB (Front Side Bus.) This is very common now -- not too hard to get. PC2700 is effective 333MHz RAM.

<<<--Are 7200 RPM drives that are ATA 100 OK, or do they need to be SATA? -->>>

SATA is only slightly better if you are running a RAID control off the Intel 875 chip set (this is the best today.) I don't have that in my PC, so I have two ATA100 7200rpm drives on a motherboard RAID 0 that does me fine.

<<<--I'm not very computer savvy unfortunately.-->>>

It changes all the time. All the above was new to everyone a few months ago.

So, if I'm building a box from the ground up, should I use PC3600 ram since it's a little faster? Or is there a limitation because the FSB is 800mhz on the processor?

I already have a 200 gig 7200 rpm drive, if that is enough space for me, could I go get another 200 gig and do a RAID 1 to mirror and backup? Or is the RAID 0 a neccessity? How about RAID 0+1?

Also, does Aspect HD support batch capture like Premeire would if it was doing the capturing?

And lastly, does the digitizing retain the original timecode from the camera?

Thanks in advance,

Jay

Re: Re: RAM speed
 

<<<-- Originally posted by David Newman :

You are correct, 800MHz is the effective speed of dual 400MHz DDR. -->>>

OK, that's now clear. Pairs of RAM chips.

<<<-- SATA is only slightly better if you are running a RAID control off the Intel 875 chip set (this is the best today.) I don't have that in my PC, so I have two ATA100 7200rpm drives on a motherboard RAID 0 that does me fine. -->>>

Looks like Dell offers only 2 choices:

1. one 200GB 7200rpm ATA100 drive

2. one 80GB 7200rpm drive (not clear if this is the Boot drive, which it should be + audio) PLUS a RAID of two 100GB ATA100 7200rpm drives. (I asume it's a MB RAID controller.)

Now let's assume a 2.6GHz or 2.8GHz HT P4 and 512MB RAM.

Simple question, how many streams with disk config #1 verses #2.

Steve, someone changed my last post completely, I had to delete it. All I the info I posted in response to Jay had be removed.

Re: Re: Re: RAM speed
 

<<<--DN: SATA is only slightly better if you are running a RAID control off the Intel 875 chip set (this is the best today.) I don't have that in my PC, so I have two ATA100 7200rpm drives on a motherboard RAID 0 that does me fine. -->>>

SM: Looks like Dell offers only 2 choices:
SM: 1. one 200GB 7200rpm ATA100 drive
SM: 2. one 80GB 7200rpm drive (not clear if this is the Boot drive, which it should be + audio) PLUS a RAID of two 100GB ATA100 7200rpm drives. (I asume it's a MB RAID controller.)
SM: Now let's assume a 2.6GHz or 2.8GHz HT P4 and 512MB RAM.
SM: Simple question, how many streams with disk config #1 verses #2.

Configuration #1 will give two video streams (disk I/O bound) but will able to apply many filters, and multiple titles tracks.

Config. #2 will do up to four streams for video.

<<<-- Originally posted by David Newman : Steve, someone changed my last post completely, I had to delete it. All I the info I posted in response to Jay had be removed. -->>>

Yea, that was strange, there were quotes from a post that didn't even exist and was confusing.

Hopefully this thread can be a reference for others who are building a box for use with Aspect HD. David, if you get a chance, can you re-answer those previous questions?

Thanks,

Jay

Trying again :)

<<<-- Originally posted by Jay Nemeth : So, if I'm building a box from the ground up, should I use PC3600 ram since it's a little faster? Or is there a limitation because the FSB is 800mhz on the processor? -->>>

You need to combine Dual channel 400Mhz DDR PC3600, with a P4 with an 800Mhz FSB. The resulting memory speed is 2.4 times faster than a standard PC2700 system.

<<<--I already have a 200 gig 7200 rpm drive, if that is enough space for me, could I go get another 200 gig and do a RAID 1 to mirror and backup? Or is the RAID 0 a neccessity? How about RAID 0+1?-->>>

RAID 0 is the only low cost way to double your disk performance. A single drive will give you dual stream, a RAID-0 setup should give you 4 streams.

<<<--Also, does Aspect HD support batch capture like Premeire would if it was doing the capturing? And lastly, does the digitizing retain the original timecode from the camera? -->>>

No, not in the current Aspect HD release.

And my last post is gone too. Did I mess something up?

I assumed HDV was NON Drop Frame.

But Aspect HD uses Drop Frame.

Which is it?

Till now I use huffyuv avis to do HD editing. I need these files to do some processing in VirtualDub, mainly to correct for camera vibrations.
Will Aspect avi files work with VirtualDub? It means - are these files usable out of the P6.5?

Re: Re: Re: Re: RAM speed
 

<<<-- Originally posted by David
Configuration #1 will give two video streams (disk I/O bound) but will able to apply many filters, and multiple titles tracks.
-->>>

Thank you.

Looks like 2.4GHz, 800FSB, dual channel 400MHz RAM, and single ATA100 drive works fine for 2 streams.

But will this handle the on-the-file CAPTURE & CONVERT?

And, how much disk space is needed to hold 1 hour of capture--using the C & C option? Using MAX quality setting. Using NORMAL quality setting?

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : And my last post is gone too. Did I mess something up?-->>>

I think you accidently edited my message, deleting most of it content.

<<<--I assumed HDV was NON Drop Frame.
But Aspect HD uses Drop Frame.
Which is it? -->>>

Drop frame vs Non Drop Frame is not the issue (an easy convert if is was.) It was more technical, I don't have the info on hand.

<<<-- Originally posted by Andre Jesmanowicz : Till now I use huffyuv avis to do HD editing. I need these files to do some processing in VirtualDub, mainly to correct for camera vibrations.
Will Aspect avi files work with VirtualDub? It means - are these files usable out of the P6.5? -->>>

Aspect HD's AVI do load fine within VirtualDub (and any PC program that supports VFW or DirectShow.) VirtualDub can't export into CFHD (the CineForm codec) however you can still use HUFFYUV on ouput, importing those AVIs into Aspect HD for converison back for real-time processing.

You can do what you want to do.

Re: Speed and image settings
 

<<<--Looks like 2.4GHz, 800FSB, dual channel 400MHz RAM, and single ATA100 drive works fine for 2 streams.

But will this handle the on-the-file CAPTURE & CONVERT?

And, how much disk space is needed to hold 1 hour of capture--using the C & C option? Using MAX quality setting. Using NORMAL quality setting? -->>>

A 2.4Ghz will do on-the-fly conversions at around 1.3:1, however this number will vary based on image content (it will be a little faster or slower as image detail changes.)

If you keep your M2T files (little point) your disk space is about 40GB per hour. If you automatic remove the converted M2T files your disk space is about 30GB per hour.

MAX quality averages a 25% higher data rate over the normal setting. Note: you will not be able to see the difference between these two. The numbers above are for the normal setting, which is all we ever use at trade shows and one-on-one demos because it is so good. We only added the MAX quality (large file size) for user insist on overkill, or those used to working with uncompressed data.

<<<-- Originally posted by David Newman <<<--

Drop frame vs Non Drop Frame is not the issue (an easy convert if is was.) It was more technical, I don't have the info on hand. -->>>

Whoops. Completely new question!

When I check MPEG-2 clip in FCP, it is DF (colons) and definitely does not behave at the 1 minute points like NDF.

So I'm wondering why the Aspect HD settings were specified to be NDF?


Very sorry. I may have hit Edit rather than Quote. Easy to do at 4AM.

Re: Re: Speed and image settings
 

<<<-- Originally posted by David Newman: A 2.4Ghz will do on-the-fly conversions at around 1.3:1, however this number will vary based on image content (it will be a little faster or slower as image detail changes.)

If you keep your M2T files (little point) your disk space is about 40GB per hour. If you automatic remove the converted M2T files your disk space is about 30GB per hour.

-->>>

So a 200GB disk is acceptable for me. That's 6 hours!

You are saying is that conversion on the fly will take about 1 hour 20 minutes to capture an hour. Fine!

How fast a CPU to get 1:1?

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen :
<<<--So I'm wondering why the Aspect HD settings were specified to be NDF?-->>>

Steve, if you look into the project setting for Aspect HD, you will that we defaulted to 30p Drop Frame (not NDF). You can change that if you like. How timecodes are reported and how they are stored on tape are different issues.

Re: Re: Re: Speed and image settings
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen :
You are saying is that conversion on the fly will take about 1 hour 20 minutes to capture an hour. Fine!

How fast a CPU to get 1:1? -->>>

With a little speculation, a slightly overclocked 3.2Ghz P4 would do this operation around 1:1. We will try that in the next few days.

<<<-- Whoops.

Been up working since Sunday.

Should have said:

When I check MPEG-2 clip in FCP, it is NDF (semi-colon) and definitely does not behave at the 1 minute points like DF.

So I'm wondering why the Aspect HD settings were specified to be DF?

I reversed everything in my question.

"How timecodes are reported and how they are stored on tape are different issues."

Many folks will do a dub from a camcorder -- with TC counter visible on the anlog copy -- to DV or VHS to log footage. Thus, they need TC to match. It may have no technical impact, but it has a workflow impact.

You can change it if you wish, Aspect HD works fine in either DF or NDF.

<<<-- Originally posted by Jonathan Sarno :
<<<--What laptop configuration/model would you purchase?-->>>

<<<--I'm still waiting for the faster systems. They only days away (I just need comfirmation before a can say who will be selling them.) We are arranging to test these new systems.-->>>

Jonathan & others,

We have finish our testing of a 3.2GHz Dual DDR 800MHz FSB laptop with hardware RAID 0 (and 3 drive inside the laptop.) These are the awesome laptops we were waiting for. This unit is able to process up to 3 HD video streams with many filters. The CPU and RAM speed would have allowed for 4 streams, yet 2.5" drives can't yet match to performance of desktop drive hards (3 stream ain't bad.) This excellent laytop, perfect for mobile HD editing with CineForm's Aspect HD, is available from www.1beyond.com. The model we tested is the new DVPro 3216-X.

Hi!
 

Hi David!
Is it -possible- to run Aspect Hd on this machine? And if so how well can I work, what are the disadvantiges and so on:

Intel Pentium 4 1.4 Ghz
785 RAMBUS RAM
180 GB HDD 7500RPM
Matrox G450 DualHead
1 IBM LCD TFT "15
1 DELL "19
firewire card
Soundblaster 128
Windows 2000 SP4 or Windows XP SP1
Direct X 9.0b
Premiere 6.5 or Premiere Pro

Does it even run on this kind of "slow" computers? Or do I have to buy a brand new just for HD editing?? Please help!
/john

Re: Hi!
 

<<<-- Originally posted by John Eriksson : Hi David!
Is it -possible- to run Aspect Hd on this machine? And if so how well can I work, what are the disadvantiges and so on:
/john -->>>

The any Window's XP system will "run" Aspect HD, however if you check the cineform.com web site you will see that your system is below the minimum system requirements -- this mean you will not get real-time editing. HD is fairly demanding, real-time more so.

I upgraded the internals of my old PC -- motherboard, RAM and CPU -- keeping my old I/O, video card, audio, networking etc, for around $500 (and that was 5 months ago.) I went from 800Mhz to 2.8Mhz (o.c.) so I can now do three HD streams in real-time. System upgrades can be done on the cheap.

thanks for your fast reply!
 

first thanks for your fast reply!

2 more..
1. will my computer manage to edit HD odinary without "realtime"?
2. and will my matrox g450 show the HD images in the second monitor via the dvdmax feature? (cause this works with dv today...) but will it work the same with HD? ?

+can you run aspect hd under windows 2000 pro sp4?
and if not -why?

Re: thanks for your fast reply!
 

<<<-- Originally posted by John Eriksson : first thanks for your fast reply!
2 more..
1. will my computer manage to edit HD odinary without "realtime"?-->>>

Aspect HD is not designed to work less than real-time, but it does work. I have used a 1.7GHz PC with much slower RAM than your system, that worked OK. But "OK" means no real-time transitions, color correction, titles, etc (you have to render everything.) We DO NOT recommend this. Mid 2.xGHz gives you real-time. You should at least exchange the CPU with a pin compatible 2.0GHz part for real-time titles and color correction (this way you don't need a new motherboard or new RAM.)

<<<--2. and will my matrox g450 show the HD images in the second monitor via the dvdmax feature? (cause this works with dv today...) but will it work the same with HD? ?-->>>

It looks like it will, but we have never tested a G450.

<<<--+can you run aspect hd under windows 2000 pro sp4? and if not -why? -->>>

No. XP only. Aspect HD uses a DirectShow video component that in only on XP.

Mixed formats?
 

David,

I have a question that is probably elementary and addresses the basics of Premiere itself. The question is, does Premiere 6.5 and or Premiere Pro with Aspect HD, support mixing 16X9 formats on the same timeline? That is to ask, is it possible to mix 16X9 DV material with 16X9 HD material encoded by AspectHD with or without transitions?

Thanks,

Re: Mixed formats?
 

<<<-- Originally posted by Raymond Krystof : David,
.. is it possible to mix 16X9 DV material with 16X9 HD material encoded by AspectHD with or without transitions?-->>>

Yes, this can be done, but does require rendering to up-convert the DV 16x9 to HD. Premiere 6.5 handles this reasonably well as the default behavior. There is an issue that can make DV imports tricky that has nothing to do with Aspect HD or Premiere, you DV footage needs to be progressively scanned for a clean mix into a progressive scan HD production. If you shoot DV in "frame mode" you will have no issue -- it works fine. If you shoot 60i, you will need to de-interlace the footage (in Premiere DV mode) before importing it into Aspect HD.

Note: Aspect HD Premiere Pro is not complete, but the DV to HD conversion maybe handled differently.

Thanks David,

It keeps sounding better and better.

Do you have an approximate date that you think Aspect for Premiere Pro will be available? Do you have a date that the current price for AspectHD for Premiere 6.5 with free upgrade to Pro will end?

Buy the 6.5 version. :) The Premiere Pro version is still a couple of months away, and the price will go up. Aspect HD for Premiere 6.5 is $1200, and it includes the free Premiere Pro upgrade of Aspect HD while we aren't taking pre-orders on Pro. So if you have HD project now, you will have paid for this product many times over before Aspect HD for P.Pro ships.

YES..
 

great!

What is the diffirance with JY-HD10E and JY HD10U?
 

Can somone answer this 3 questions?

1.Is the JY-HD10E fully supported with Aspect HD?
2.Does the JY-HD10E record PAL on any mode HD/SD/DV?
3.Does it output a PAL signal from the S-VHS and the compoite port? Or is that also NTSC, and what is the diffirance with JY-HD10E and JY HD10U?

Thanks!

Re: What is the diffirance with JY-HD10E and JY HD10U?
 

The JY-HD10U and the JY-HD10E are the same camera. It has no PAL mode (and therefore fully compatible with Aspect HD.)

This site lists its specs.
http://www.provis.com.au/products/video/jy_hd10e.htm

not even ??
 

not even PAL signal from the S-VHS and the composite port?

thanks!