Double Checking: Neo Scene has 24p pulldown?
 

Just double checking because I'm having trouble finding this information on your Web site.

If all I really need is something that will take the 24p-in-60i files recorded in the Canon HG10 & 20 series cameras, and convert them into true 24p files which can be edited in Sony Vegas, I want Neo Scene, correct?

Yes - Neo Scene includes 24p extraction. I'll add a little more clarity on the product page.

Awesome! Thanks.

Only other question - and probably one I can get answered via e-mail - if I buy a copy for myself at home, do I need to buy a second copy for myself at work? Is it per site or per user?

Another thing: I've been archiving my files as H.264 .mov files (a few are mpeg-2). Can I use Neo Scene to quickly create mastering files?

Also, can Neo Scene convert only -part- of a file to Cineform, for intermediate codec editing? Say 5 minutes out of a long AVCHD interview?

The licensing is officially one user one machine, but we understand that users have laptops or home PC so we are flexible and allow for two activations. This is not for two users on two PCs, but for single user flexiblity.

"Also, can Neo Scene convert only -part- of a file to Cineform, for intermediate codec editing? Say 5 minutes out of a long AVCHD interview?"

You can stop a converion part way through, and the resulting AVI is valid, but otherwise we convert entire clips.

Brian, following is a post today about licensing for Neo Scene that I answered. Rather than duplicate I'll point you to it: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/989365-post34.html

Regarding archives - yes absolutely. Neo Scene is designed for converting HDV and AVCHD files, so if the sources you want to convert fall within those guidelines then it will be perfect. If you have a broader assortement of AVI or MOV files then Neo HD might be required as it will convert many more file types.

Neo Scene does not do partial conversions. But after conversion you can use Virtual Dub (free utility) to trim clips without the need to render.

What is needed to convert 5D Mark II video files?

Bill, there are a couple threads here about converting 5D2 footage using CineForm - they're easy to find. You'll need either Neo HD or Prospect HD. "Today" you need to install some extra components as indicated by the existing threads. "Today" is in quotes because in the next 2-3 weeks we'll eliminate the extra components and will support 5D2 conversions directly in Neo HD/Prospect HD.

Thanks, I was kind of hoping Scene would be enough. Oh well, the price is just a little too rich for an amateur who's just making web videos (which is my case). I'd consider buying Scene if it could handle the 5D2 files. I just want to be able to edit 720p intermediates of my 5D2 files in a Vegas timeline for final renders to 640x360 Flash. I've actually got a decent workflow already for batching clips using the built-in Cineform in Vegas (rough edit > events to regions script > batch render to 720p intermediate), but I'm trying to find a solution for the crushed blacks problem in my workflow, so thanks to the QT decoder and the way Vegas works I guess, I'm looking for an easy solution outside of Vegas...

Yee Haw.

I fixed the problem.

Here's what I did: I downloaded the trial version of NeoHD, and this wouldn't convert the file either, but it gave me a much better reason: I didn't have an AVCHD codec installed.

Downloading CoreAVC and installing it allowed NeoHD to convert the file to Cineform.

I then uninstalled NeoHD trial and then reinstalled NeoScene.

It's converting now. No errors.

If I had to guess, I think it's just that I didn't have CoreAVC installed, and the cryptic error message didn't help me figure out that was the problem.

:D

Brian,
I missed something, which file wouldn't convert, yet adding CoreAVC it would?

Damn, now I've got an audiosync issue. I think it may have something to do with this tape, which I know has a dropped frame somewhere in it.

I'm going to capture to M2T and see if the Audiosync problem is there. Then I'll try Vegas. If nothing else, I can always resync the audio manually.

Okay, capturing to M2T and then converting to Cineform to remove pulldown works.

NOW I've got another problem. Importing the converted Cineform files into Sony Vegas, I'm getting a flickering problem. It's fine when I play the cineform file, but once I bring it into sony vegas, it looks like this.

http://www.blogphilo.com/rawfootage/...ffe%20test.mp4

Every 8th frame, for 2 frames, I'm getting that weird color shift.
{EDIT}
Nevermind. Fixed it. Just a fluke, a re-transcode cleared that right up.

I'm getting that too (The flickering). How did you 'fix it'?

I wish I could tell you how, all I know was that I deleted the flickering file, then redid the pulldown (from the M2T file) in NeoScene. This time the flickering was gone.

There was one problem - Rendering to Cineform FROM Vegas, I wasn't able to get audio working. A frustration.

Never seen that. I would love to send a short CineForm AVI that does it. If your samples are too long, use VirtualDub to chop the clip using Direct Stream mode. Also use VirtualDub to confirm the error. The clip look like it is switching colorspace, very weird, maybe Vegas only (as it requests the color space from us.)

I'm sending a short clip to support. It's not just Vegas, it does it when you scrub in VirtualDub and in Premiere Pro CS3.

This is so confusing...
 

The original poster asks if Neo Scene will do the "Remove Pulldown" process to extract the true 24p content from the HV20/30 HDV stream which telecines it into standard 60i. David Taylor says that indeed it does (from his earlier post). I have seen similar claims on various other posts. So, I trusted all these assorted posts, jumped right in, and being a complete fool - bought the Neo Scene without first loading the 3-day trial.

The capture screen in Neo-Scene offers a 24 "conversion" - but not the specific "Remove Pulldown" option I have seen on other screenshots elsewhere. I don't want to "convert" my footage, I want to extract the actual 24p material properly from the 60i stream. After some closer scrutiny, I think I may be screwed and actually need NeoHD instead - which makes specific mention of the HV20/30 pulldown option.

Yes, I am an idiot who in his excitement for his new gear, ran in charging at windmills like Don Quixote, credit card in paw, without testing the goods first. Am I just going to have to eat the $129, then save up for the $499 NeoHD? - because after $1000 for the camera, tripod, etc - my software budget is a bit slim and I need to pace it out some.

Any advice from the pros would be helpful.

Respectfully,
Wolf

Convert to 24p is the option you want. It extracts pulldown when detected automatically, plus detect native 24p sources (XLH1/A1, JVC cameras etc.) and leaves those untouched and it converts any regular 60i to 24p -- it does a lot base on your source type. We changed the name as so many used the Remove pulldown feature of NEO HD wrong. More users know they have 24p than they have a camera that uses pulldown.

The 24p extraction in Neo Scene is (temporarily) a bit more sophisticated than is currently shipping in Neo HD due to some recent updates. That's why the interface was simplified. You're not losing features in Neo Scene. We'll be updating Neo HD in its next release as well.

Woo Hoo!
 

Fan-friggen-tastic!

I am officially NOT a moron... well, ok... that is yet to be decided. BUT! I bought the right stuff. I have wanted to get into Cinematography for several years, but just never had the time. Now that my life has calmed down some, I am jumping in with all four paws. This fall, I should have a decent pool of cash saved up for a full-blown RED Scarlet S35 kit, Mac Pro, Neo HD4K, FCP, and MBL - but now, yeah I'm still a bit dry on funds... so I figured that the spare cash I do have could be spent in such a fashion as to allow me to spend the summer learning basic techniques (smooth panning, focus, optics, aperature, editing, color correction, etc) with some entry-level gear (HV30, Premiere, Libec sticks, etc)... and that was a long-winded way around the mill to simply say - I am thrilled to know that Neo Scene will work as expected - since one foundational element across the board is that Cineform codecs are simply the best there is for both quality AND workflow.

Thanks guys for such a speedy response!

Howls,
Wolf

Thanks for the feedback. If this comes up again we'll have to see if more words are needed to explain the 24p processing.

Perhaps if you labeled that checkbox as it is now:

"Convert to 24p(25p)"

Then add a tooltip or mouseover stating:

"Select this option if importing from a camera that natively records in 24p, a 24p variant such as the Canon 24f format, or encapsulates 24p within a 60i container. Enabling this feature will automatically perform any necessary conversions or pulldown removal based on the capture source."

... or something like that. :)

Howls,
Wolf

Jesus.

Don't get me wrong, it's great that you're getting into videography.

But for crying out loud, that's looking like an expensive disaster!

The RED Scarlet S35 kit is great but my general rule is that if one particular component is going to cost you more than $3000, don't get it until you know you can get paid for it. I'm still an amateur, and I've been doing this for two years now.

Start with the basics - a decent consumer camera (I'm working with the HG20 right now), decent editing software (Sony Vegas Pro 8.0 does everything FCP does for $200 at BHPhotoVideo.com - and it doesn't require you to buy a Mac.)

I also noticed that you've got nothing in that kit saved up for audio. Rule of thumb. Whatever you have budgeted for your camera, be prepared to spend at least that amount on audio equipment. Audio is MUCH more important than video.

I don't know if I'd use the term "disaster" to describe my plan. This wasn't a gear critique thread, and I hijacked it enough as it is. It should go without saying my list wasn't a definitive all-encompassing kit, just the highlights. As for audio, I plan to ease into "double-system" audio during my pursuit of knowledge this summer.

And to respond to your suggestion, yes - I AM starting small... thus my current HV30, Premiere, NeoScene, ATR35 mics, assorted filters, libec tripod, and 5 great books on the subject. My goal is that by fall, I have a good grasp of the basics, have shot at least two or three things of substance, and have fallen in love with the craft.

My "prosumer" budget this fall that I mentioned is $30k - which I figure should cover all that I mentioned with a couple thousand left over for travel (as that is my goal, to shoot mostly nature-related material, starting with the Grand Canyon or Yellowstone.

There. Sorry for the thread-jacking, but I figured I'd respond to the previous post.

I now return you to your normally scheduled Cineform Coolness.

Howls,
Wolf

Reading this . . . Eugenia’s Rants and Thoughts Blog Archive Canon HV20 24p Pulldown

It says that Canon does not include “flags” in that stream to guide applications regarding its cadence.

Is Neo Scene an efficient solution for this with no field hassles at all?

Yes, NeoScene manages it fine.

David, out of curiosity, what will Neo Scene do to a 30p AVCHD source? Taking the very literal "convert to 24p" I could expect it does something nasty, but hopefully it will leave true progressive sources alone?

Normally I wouldn't mix FP24 and 30 clips, so it shouldn't matter anyway but if it's safe, then I would always leave that option on. It's easy to test myself, just thought I'd ask as it could be interesting for others as well.

30p sources should have the convert 24p setting off, as it will try and produce a 24p images with limited success.