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-   -   Cineform Prospect HD with PPCS3 or PPCS4 with cineform importer?? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/cineform-software-showcase/177952-cineform-prospect-hd-ppcs3-ppcs4-cineform-importer.html)

Simon Zimmer April 9th, 2009 10:29 AM

Cineform Prospect HD with PPCS3 or PPCS4 with cineform importer??
 
Hi,

I own Prospect HD with PPCS3 on vista 32. Works great and have no problems.

I am upgrading in a few weeks to vista 64 and ppcs4 but realize that Prospect hd does not work with PPCS4 yet. So if i use the importer for CS4 I will be able to use cineform files but there are no presets or anything yet right?

Sounds like I should stick to CS3 on my new 64 bit machine until CS4 and Prospect HD work?

Any advice would be appreciated? Trying to prevent future problems when the new computer arrives.

Simon

Adam Gold April 9th, 2009 10:41 AM

I'm using CS3 with the final build of the old Prospect under Vista 64 and have had very few problems. I've already bought CS4 but am waiting for the final release of the new Prospect before installing either.

Stephen Armour April 9th, 2009 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Zimmer (Post 1071163)
Hi,

I own Prospect HD with PPCS3 on vista 32. Works great and have no problems.

I am upgrading in a few weeks to vista 64 and ppcs4 but realize that Prospect hd does not work with PPCS4 yet. So if i use the importer for CS4 I will be able to use cineform files but there are no presets or anything yet right?

Sounds like I should stick to CS3 on my new 64 bit machine until CS4 and Prospect HD work?

Any advice would be appreciated? Trying to prevent future problems when the new computer arrives.

Simon

Stick with the CS3 (for now). You will thank yourself! One of our 3 editing machines has CS4 on it and we were not very happy with it for various reasons. Not to mention the delay until ProspectHD 4 comes out....and who knows when that will ship in a stable version?

Just a lot of unknowns and very little gain for lots of pain right now. Later, the story could change, especially for those of us looking forward to First Light's shining on our workflow.

Simon Zimmer April 9th, 2009 11:35 AM

Yeah, that is what I thought.

I appreciate the advice.

I will wait then.

So PPCS3 and AECS3 work fine on vista 64-bit?

I heard mixed on that one.

Thanks again!

Simon

Stephen Armour April 9th, 2009 05:56 PM

Sorry, no Vista here. We're mostly XPx64 and one XP 32bit, as we build our own machines. For now, that seems okay. Looks like Win 7 will be here in time for our next builds and we'll skip Vista totally.

Simon Zimmer April 10th, 2009 08:33 AM

Windows 7 is coming out when?

Thanks,

Simon

Adam Gold April 10th, 2009 12:23 PM

They're saying August but who really knows?

Simon Zimmer April 10th, 2009 02:06 PM

Thanks!

Yeah, that is true!

Simon

Ray Parkes April 12th, 2009 01:19 PM

Vist x64
 
I would definitely not recommend Vista x64. I have spent months trying to stabilize one workstation. XP ran like a dream in comparison. CS4 is not really worth all the hassle. I have eventually managed to get it to work with Premier CS3 and AE CS4. AE CS4 is worth it especially if you do a lot of keying as we do. Mocha is also fantastic for tracking shots. We use 3DS Max which runs perfectly in Vista in all flavors but all the Adobe CS4 software has problems. Even Flash crashes occasionally. The 3rd party drivers seem to be the main cause of the difficulty. Nvidia video drivers in particular. They work fine with Max but crash Adobe all the time. I also have trouble with Motu audio drivers. Vista seems to create conflicts. Turning as much of it off as possible and switching video and audio cards around enables me to keep it running. I wish I hadn't bothered. I have kept my other machines in XP and production on them is way better.

Simon Zimmer April 12th, 2009 02:26 PM

I am getting the new z600 workstation from HP with vista64. I am assuming that drivers should not be an issue since it is a new machine.

I hope I am right.

Thanks for your perspective though.

Simon

Pete Bauer April 12th, 2009 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Parkes (Post 1084219)
The 3rd party drivers seem to be the main cause of the difficulty.

Not that any software, including Adobe's, is bug-free, but it does often seem to come down to "messy" systems or uncommon/unusual third party software.

Regardless of the OS, there are people with horror stories and people who swear by it. I'm running a totally clean Vista x64 SP1 and CS4 Master Collection setup and loving it. The only slightly quirky thing about the setup is that the M-Audio Vista driver is still labeled as a beta. But no problems. I put Vista / CS4 on a new partition (separate Raptor drive, actually) on an existing editing box specifically to try it out before building a new i7 system, and now I hardly ever boot to the XP / CS3 / ProspectHD partition despite missing Cineform's capabilities.

I still haven't built the i7, but can't wait. Anyway, by now, unless you're planning on using some unusual hardware, drivers shouldn't be a problem with a new vendor-built that includes Vista. As with any editing box using any OS, just keep your system as clean as possible.

Simon Zimmer April 12th, 2009 07:26 PM

That is good advice about keeping the system clean.

I am guilty of installing TOO MUCH stuff on my computer. With the new one, I will only install anything that is important to video editing. Nothing else.

Thanks,

Simon

Ray Parkes April 12th, 2009 09:05 PM

clean machines
 
I installed Vista and have even reinstalled Vista x64 on a brand new and separate drive with just CS4 and 3DS max on a dual boot system on a standard HP 8400. Any mess there is caused by Microsoft. I chose a basic machine with lots of power rather than one of the hybrids I build myself. All the drivers were up to date but I found that an older driver for the Nvidia quadro card works much better. My M-Audio Firewire card had reliability problems with the Beta drivers. The higher end Motu card I use now gives exceptional performance for the 5.1 setup even in Audition which I use for placing sounds in 3D. Audition does hang often in Vista but not in XP. CS4 on Vista 32 is much more stable but I am seriously looking at more Mac's next time I purchase hardware. The ones we use now are far more reliable.

William Urschel April 13th, 2009 06:24 AM

Simon:

For your info, I'm running Vista Ultimate 64 bit, and both Adobe CS3 and CS4, with absolutely no problems! And the reason I'm running CS3 is to run Cineform on Premiere, particularly for downrezzing 1920x1080 30p or 60ii to 720x480 30p or 60i (after trying a gazzilion other programs for downrezzing, I find NOTHING even approaches the capability of Cineform for such downrezzing with smooth, detailed, artifact free results - and no, I haven't tried jumping through the hoops of using free programs, just $1,000s of commercially available programs). Then use CS4's Adobe Media Encoder and Encore, importing the Cineform generated AVI files. By the way, after over a 1,000 hours of testing over nine month's time, I will probably be dropping the use of AME in favor of Cinema Craft's inexpensive encoder or their $2,000 encoder, since recent tests indicate they both produce notably superior results in encoding for MPEG2 DVD.

For your info, the Boxx machine on which I'm running all this pretty much flawlessly (very, very few crashes!) - Intel i7 Quad Core overclocked at 4.0 Ghz, 6 GB DDR3 1333, NVidia Quadro CX 1.5 GB, 250GB 7,200 SATA, and 2 x 500GB 7,200 SATA (RAID 0 configuration)

Matt Vanecek April 13th, 2009 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William Urschel (Post 1087070)
Simon:
For your info, the Boxx machine on which I'm running all this pretty much flawlessly (very, very few crashes!) - Intel i7 Quad Core overclocked at 4.0 Ghz, 6 GB DDR3 1333, NVidia Quadro CX 1.5 GB, 250GB 7,200 SATA, and 2 x 500GB 7,200 SATA (RAID 0 configuration)

Just as a side note and not to detract from the thread, but what are you using for cooling that thing? I have a hard time keeping the CPU temp down even with after-market fan, and still keeping the system relatively quiet. Next step is fanless liquid cooling....

Thanks,
Matt

Simon Zimmer April 13th, 2009 11:25 AM

Now it is my turn to go off tangent. ;)

Cinema Craft is good huh?

How are the results for h.264?

I was never impressed with Adobe media encoder. I use procoder 3 which is pretty good.

Simon

William Urschel April 14th, 2009 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Vanecek (Post 1087188)
Just as a side note and not to detract from the thread, but what are you using for cooling that thing? I have a hard time keeping the CPU temp down even with after-market fan, and still keeping the system relatively quiet. Next step is fanless liquid cooling....

Thanks,
Matt

Matt.........

I have no idea what Boxx has inside the case for cooling, except that their sale's department indicates "liquid cooling". I can hear a fan when I turn it on (which may or may not largely be the fan on that NVidia board) - it's much quieter than any Boxx I've had previously. Running the processor at 98% for extended periods has never presented a problem. For more info on the Boxx, please go to their site and look up the "4850 Extreme Series".

William Urschel April 14th, 2009 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Zimmer (Post 1087985)
Now it is my turn to go off tangent. ;)

Cinema Craft is good huh?

How are the results for h.264?

I was never impressed with Adobe media encoder. I use procoder 3 which is pretty good.

Simon

Simon.....(with apologies to the rest of you for "going off tangent".)

Cinema Craft products I've been testing are ONLY for DVD production, retail for between about $100 and $2,000. For the last two years Cinema Craft apparently has had a piece of hardware for HD, but I won't be going for it, since it currently goes for $74,000!!!!!!!!

I just finished my latest complete tests with the EX-1 outputting interlaced, and attempts to produce acceptable looking results with AME were a failure. Tested were various combinations and permutations of such parameters as EX-1 straight out, shutter speed from 1/60 to 1/125, detail at various levels from minus 10 to 35, and then in the computer using only Adobe workflow, bringing BPAV files directly into Premiere, exporting and downrezzing with AME, and burning DVDs with Encore, OR using Cineform HD Link to convert the BPAV files for Premiere, exporting from Premiere with Cineform Prospect 4k (downrezzing to 720x480, with various and sundry other variables such as output as progressive, lower field first, upper field first, etc.). As you can imagine, all of these combinations resulted in dozens of different output clips - amazingly enough (to me, at least) was that the cleanest result with Cineform was upper field first, a variation I was put on to by a post on this Forum!

And by the way, one of the MANY programs I have purchased and tested is Procoder 3 - I may be mistaken, but I believe it utilizes the same dreaded MPEG2 generator as AME. In any event, my very preliminary tests with even the very basic form of Cinema Craft indicate that for EX-1 files, it runs circles around Procoder 3.

Given that my over 1,000 hours of such testing over the last nine months, and my current testing, is only done in evenings and weekends, it will probably be several weeks before I finish my tests on both versions of Cinema Craft (the $2,000 version presents enough variables that several centuries could probably produce a thorough review!).

My problems in producing decent looking DVDs have only and ever been an issue with the blasted EX-1. I have five HDV cameras that result in gorgeous DVDs. So, one might ask, why don't I just toss the EX-1 (apart from the $18,000 I've spent on the camera, cards, and other accessories directly associated with it)? Well, just because, as EVERYONE knows, it makes superb HD (even for me). Regarding EX-1 produced DVDs, on this and many other forums, I have repeatedly seen that most seem to have no issue, and appear to get the best looking DVDs ever. And then there is what seems to be the extreme minority, such as me, who indicate that EX-1 DVDs are just the worst looking garbage. Also often sited is Doug Jensen's Vortex intro to the EX-1 as an obvious example of how great DVDs look produced from the EX-1.

Now just a minute! Almost all of his production was shot with some other unidentified camera, and NOT the EX-1. And everything was shot in progressive, not interlaced! And when I view the EX-1 shots at the beginning of his program on any one of my lower rez, smaller computer monitors, they look great! BUT put them up on a combo of my test viewers, and when the content is a straight vertical edge (such as the mast on the passing speedboat) I see the same problems of vertical twitter that I see on my productions! I have been designing and installing home theater for 25 years, and I'm expert in that field - I use three of my theaters for testing, which theaters include players and screens as: Sony Playstation 3 - 65 inch plasma screen; Sony 300 BD Player - 42 inch Samsung LCD; and Panasonic 3000U projector - 109 inch Stewart Firehawk Screen. Everything I put up on the screens of these theaters looks great, except for some early produced heavily artifacted DVDs, and ANY DVDs resulting from the EX-1s very distracting vertical twitter. The first and only exception re the EX-1 that I've seen so far is with utilization of Cinema Craft's programs.

Finally, and to return to the real topic of this thread, Boxx told me that their in-house testing exhibited great results with many qualified programs running on Vista 64 bit, including Adobe CS4 - based on my experience with a couple of other, much lesser (and other branded) Vista machines, I objected, and said I wouldn't touch Vista with the proverbial pole. But they highly recommended Vista 64 bit, on their machine. The only reason I was willing to consider this and purchase what I did was my prior experience with Boxx - they have always steered me in the superior direction, and their technical staff - testing and assistance - just run circles around anything else with which I've had experience - boy, does Vista 64 hummmmmmm. Nuff said, except that when I've finished my testing of the Adobe/Cineform/Cinema Craft combo for EX-1 output (both progressive and interlaced), I'll post my results on a new thread in this and several other forums.

Simon Zimmer April 14th, 2009 06:51 AM

Very interesting information.

Looks like I need to try out the cheaper version of cinema craft.

Thanks for the information.

Simon


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