Canon DSLR Footage 10-Bit Colorspace Up-conversion Tutorial using Cineform

Marc Salvatore · February 17th, 2011, 10:04 PM

I never use the 32bit mode because it's incredibly slow and I also use certain plugins that are only 8bit compatible. So it sounds like initial sharpening in AE is a good way to go. Look forward to your other tutorial when you have the time.

Marc

Luis de la Cerda · February 18th, 2011, 03:56 AM

I've used the neatvideo workflow since back in the days of hdv.
Here's a few things I've picked up along the way...

1) The virtualdub version allows for batch processing.

2) When deadlines are tight, you can just edit the native footage (which is a breeze in CS5) and process your whole edited piece before adding titles. As long as you're only removing compression artifacts and not denoising the footage, an umbrella setting should cover a broad range of shots, even when digital zoom is used for reframing or different sources used (see #3)

3) This is VERY IMPORTANT. As you only want to get rid of blocking, banding and such, turn noise reduction to 0% for high frequency and 15-25% for mid frequency noise. This helps preserve detail and also helps avoid banding without introducing extra noise.

4) To get a good umbrella profile for processing fully edited material, try using a good shot representative of most of your material for your base noise profile and use manual fine tuning with a few different shots to tweak it.

I hope this helps you guys save some time. As I said, in most instances, an umbrella profile to process your edited program looks just as good and for a fraction of the time it takes to do it the other way. I'd say leave the shot by shot processing for your masterpiece exclusively. ;)

Ray Bell · February 18th, 2011, 10:17 AM

Martin... thanks for the tut... works well.
can you give us more detail on the GSP setup you used in first light.
also, for your flat setting in your camera, which settings are you using... I have seen a couple of setups.. yours seems to be working well for you..

Thanks again.. this is a good thread... thanks for all the inputs from everyone...

Greg Fiske · February 18th, 2011, 10:22 AM

Great tutorial, thank you. What is step 7 for?
7. Apply ‘noise and grain>noise’ (set amount to 0.4)

Is this to apply a film grain look? At the end, are those presets included in first light? Or did you develop those yourself?

Ray Bell · February 18th, 2011, 10:26 AM

Marc... If you decide to upgrade to Win 7 64bit I would make a suggestion for you...
Get new hard drives and do a native load... the reason I say this is from my experience Win 7 64bit is a good upgrade, but, I have many many add-ons/plugins for my Aftereffects and Premire Pro that have not been ported over to 64bit yet... and even the ones that are being ported over the cost is not cheap to update them.

So that I won't loose them I now have to have two complete hard drive setups... one setup with Win 32bit that has all of the add-ons/plugins.. and another setup with Win 64bit that is slowly but surely getting all of the added software as its getting released....

Of course if you can afford it, the best solution would be to keep the win 32bit computer as is, and get a updated computer that has all the new hardware and the 64bit setup...

hope this helps... it would be a shame if you updated your existing system to 64bit and found out some of your software wont work on it...

Martin Guitar · February 18th, 2011, 11:38 AM

Hi Ray,

The camera settings i use regularly are Neutral, 0 sharpness, -4 contrast, -2 saturation and 0 color.

For the GSP setup i used a profile that i am currently testing from Marvel Cine.(3.4 beta)
I tested their 3.3 and skin tones were orange and not fun to look at but the 3.4 beta seems really good so far. I know they have officially released 3.4 but i have not look at it yet, still testing 3.4beta. I never used the older Marvels flat styles because they rendered orange skin tones.

In FirstLight i used a 5298 film curve, 1.149 in Gamma / Blue and a little contrast.

Here's the download link for the beta that i used for the GSP setup:

http://mediatube.marvelsfilm.com/mar...ne_v34beta.zip

Ray Bell · February 18th, 2011, 12:58 PM

Thanks Martin... some good reading over there... if we could just get them to write that anti-moire plug in
to work in AE :-)

Looks like I need to read up on how to apply the DSP style in First Light... :-)

Ray Bell · February 18th, 2011, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Fiske

Great tutorial, thank you. What is step 7 for?
7. Apply ‘noise and grain>noise’ (set amount to 0.4)

Is this to apply a film grain look? At the end, are those presets included in first light? Or did you develop those yourself?

He's putting that in there for preventative measure of banding/artifacts... normally for 8bit footage but doesn't seem to hurt the 16bit in his Tutorial... David says you can skip it if you wanted....

Marc Salvatore · February 18th, 2011, 01:28 PM

Thanks Ray, I'm actually using Win 7 64bit. What I am considering is upgrading to CS5 for the 64bit capability.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Bell

Marc... If you decide to upgrade to Win 7 64bit I would make a suggestion for you...
Get new hard drives and do a native load... the reason I say this is from my experience Win 7 64bit is a good upgrade, but, I have many many add-ons/plugins for my Aftereffects and Premire Pro that have not been ported over to 64bit yet... and even the ones that are being ported over the cost is not cheap to update them.

So that I won't loose them I now have to have two complete hard drive setups... one setup with Win 32bit that has all of the add-ons/plugins.. and another setup with Win 64bit that is slowly but surely getting all of the added software as its getting released....

Of course if you can afford it, the best solution would be to keep the win 32bit computer as is, and get a updated computer that has all the new hardware and the 64bit setup...

hope this helps... it would be a shame if you updated your existing system to 64bit and found out some of your software wont work on it...

Martin Guitar · February 18th, 2011, 01:34 PM

It is not a preventive step. It's an essential step to repair the new 16-bit information. You won't see it on well exposed shots that much but on underexposed shots you will not believe it when you add the noise. It's like magic, it just flatten all banding.

Martin Guitar · February 18th, 2011, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Salvatore

Thanks Ray, I'm actually using Win 7 64bit. What I am considering is upgrading to CS5 for the 64bit capability.

You will not regret it.

Ariel Gilboa · February 19th, 2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Guitar

I know they have officially released 3.4 but i have not look at it yet, still testing 3.4beta .

Where is the link to the official release ? haven't found it...

Brian Parker · February 24th, 2011, 09:30 AM

I dont have the option in AE cs5 for trillions of colors. It is greyed out. I can only go with milions of colors.

Is this because I am using Cineform Neo HD?

Also, for a "High" quality export is it still correct to put the quality slider to 50%?

David Newman · February 24th, 2011, 10:53 AM

Brian,

You are using the wrong export option. Select CineForm AVI, and select RGB+A, then trillions+ will be presented.

Brian Parker · February 24th, 2011, 11:07 AM

Thanks for the quick response.

However, (on a mac in AE) I choose the following:

Render settings: Best

Output Module:
Format: Quicktime
Channels: RGB+A
Format>Video Codec: Cineform HD/4K/3D

Depth: I can still only choose "millions+" All others are greyed out.

February 24th, 2011, 09:30 AM	#28
Brian Parker Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Tokyo Posts: 230	Re: Canon DSLR Footage 10-Bit Colorspace Up-conversion Tutorial using Cineform I dont have the option in AE cs5 for trillions of colors. It is greyed out. I can only go with milions of colors. Is this because I am using Cineform Neo HD? Also, for a "High" quality export is it still correct to put the quality slider to 50%?

February 24th, 2011, 10:53 AM	#29
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Re: Canon DSLR Footage 10-Bit Colorspace Up-conversion Tutorial using Cineform Brian, You are using the wrong export option. Select CineForm AVI, and select RGB+A, then trillions+ will be presented. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

February 24th, 2011, 11:07 AM	#30
Brian Parker Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Tokyo Posts: 230	Re: Canon DSLR Footage 10-Bit Colorspace Up-conversion Tutorial using Cineform Thanks for the quick response. However, (on a mac in AE) I choose the following: Render settings: Best Output Module: Format: Quicktime Channels: RGB+A Format>Video Codec: Cineform HD/4K/3D Depth: I can still only choose "millions+" All others are greyed out.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

February 17th, 2011, 10:04 PM	#16
Marc Salvatore Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Medford, OR Posts: 351	I never use the 32bit mode because it's incredibly slow and I also use certain plugins that are only 8bit compatible. So it sounds like initial sharpening in AE is a good way to go. Look forward to your other tutorial when you have the time. Marc

February 18th, 2011, 03:56 AM	#17
Luis de la Cerda Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Mexico City Posts: 181	I've used the neatvideo workflow since back in the days of hdv. Here's a few things I've picked up along the way... 1) The virtualdub version allows for batch processing. 2) When deadlines are tight, you can just edit the native footage (which is a breeze in CS5) and process your whole edited piece before adding titles. As long as you're only removing compression artifacts and not denoising the footage, an umbrella setting should cover a broad range of shots, even when digital zoom is used for reframing or different sources used (see #3) 3) This is VERY IMPORTANT. As you only want to get rid of blocking, banding and such, turn noise reduction to 0% for high frequency and 15-25% for mid frequency noise. This helps preserve detail and also helps avoid banding without introducing extra noise. 4) To get a good umbrella profile for processing fully edited material, try using a good shot representative of most of your material for your base noise profile and use manual fine tuning with a few different shots to tweak it. I hope this helps you guys save some time. As I said, in most instances, an umbrella profile to process your edited program looks just as good and for a fraction of the time it takes to do it the other way. I'd say leave the shot by shot processing for your masterpiece exclusively. ;)

February 18th, 2011, 10:17 AM	#18
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	Martin... thanks for the tut... works well. can you give us more detail on the GSP setup you used in first light. also, for your flat setting in your camera, which settings are you using... I have seen a couple of setups.. yours seems to be working well for you.. Thanks again.. this is a good thread... thanks for all the inputs from everyone...

February 18th, 2011, 10:22 AM	#19
Greg Fiske Major Player Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Santa Ana, CA Posts: 499	Great tutorial, thank you. What is step 7 for? 7. Apply ‘noise and grain>noise’ (set amount to 0.4) Is this to apply a film grain look? At the end, are those presets included in first light? Or did you develop those yourself?

February 18th, 2011, 10:26 AM	#20
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	Marc... If you decide to upgrade to Win 7 64bit I would make a suggestion for you... Get new hard drives and do a native load... the reason I say this is from my experience Win 7 64bit is a good upgrade, but, I have many many add-ons/plugins for my Aftereffects and Premire Pro that have not been ported over to 64bit yet... and even the ones that are being ported over the cost is not cheap to update them. So that I won't loose them I now have to have two complete hard drive setups... one setup with Win 32bit that has all of the add-ons/plugins.. and another setup with Win 64bit that is slowly but surely getting all of the added software as its getting released.... Of course if you can afford it, the best solution would be to keep the win 32bit computer as is, and get a updated computer that has all the new hardware and the 64bit setup... hope this helps... it would be a shame if you updated your existing system to 64bit and found out some of your software wont work on it...

February 18th, 2011, 11:38 AM	#21
Martin Guitar Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 115	Hi Ray, The camera settings i use regularly are Neutral, 0 sharpness, -4 contrast, -2 saturation and 0 color. For the GSP setup i used a profile that i am currently testing from Marvel Cine.(3.4 beta) I tested their 3.3 and skin tones were orange and not fun to look at but the 3.4 beta seems really good so far. I know they have officially released 3.4 but i have not look at it yet, still testing 3.4beta. I never used the older Marvels flat styles because they rendered orange skin tones. In FirstLight i used a 5298 film curve, 1.149 in Gamma / Blue and a little contrast. Here's the download link for the beta that i used for the GSP setup: http://mediatube.marvelsfilm.com/mar...ne_v34beta.zip

February 18th, 2011, 12:58 PM	#22
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	Thanks Martin... some good reading over there... if we could just get them to write that anti-moire plug in to work in AE :-) Looks like I need to read up on how to apply the DSP style in First Light... :-)

February 18th, 2011, 01:34 PM	#25
Martin Guitar Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 115	It is not a preventive step. It's an essential step to repair the new 16-bit information. You won't see it on well exposed shots that much but on underexposed shots you will not believe it when you add the noise. It's like magic, it just flatten all banding.