Canon DSLR Footage 10-Bit Colorspace Up-conversion Tutorial using Cineform at DVinfo.net

Martin Guitar · February 13th, 2011, 06:41 PM

David Newman · February 13th, 2011, 08:37 PM

To do a 16-bit export, select RGB+Alpha and Trillion+ colors. The video shows an 8-bit export from After Effects, but otherwise is a cool workflow.

Martin Guitar · February 13th, 2011, 08:55 PM

Video is now updated with the correct 16 bit settings. Thanks David!

Marc Salvatore · February 15th, 2011, 07:31 PM

Martin,

Thank you! I'm starting to edit a big project and I will be using your workflow. One question I have is why did you not use the sharpening within Neat Video? I've always found that to work well since the program seems to know not to sharpen the noise.

Thanks, Marc

Martin Guitar · February 15th, 2011, 07:51 PM

Thank you Marc.

I found that sharpening within Neat Video did sharpen some unwanted artifact on low light (really noisy) shots but that might be me doing something wrong in Neat Video...

Best of luck with your project!

Greg Fiske · February 16th, 2011, 12:18 PM

Marc, thanks for sharing! Great job.

Marc Salvatore · February 16th, 2011, 05:38 PM

Martin,

I did a comparison of Neat video sharpening vs. AE and you're right, AE looks better. What version of AE are you using? I'm still with CS3 and Neat Video is a real render hog. Are you using the 64bit CS5? If so, is it much faster?

Regards, Marc

Martin Guitar · February 16th, 2011, 05:56 PM

Yes i'm on 64Bit CS5 and it's pretty fast specially when you render on multiple cores.

Marc Salvatore · February 16th, 2011, 06:06 PM

Thanks, this might give me an excuse to upgrade :)

Marc Salvatore · February 17th, 2011, 04:41 PM

Martin,

I put together a cheat sheet of your tutorial. Thanks again.

1. Convert to Cineform
2. Set AE to 16 bit in project settings
3. Add clip to composition
4. Apply Neat Video noise reduction process (enable ‘very low freq’)
5. Apply ‘blur & sharpen>unsharp mask’ (default settings)
6. Apply ‘blur & sharpen>sharpen’ (12)
7. Apply ‘noise and grain>noise’ (set amount to 0.4)
8. Composition>Make Movie
9. Output module settings:
• Format: Cineform AVI
• Channels: RGB+Alpha
• Depth: Trillions of colors+
• Format options: Set as desired
• Enable audio output if you want audio
10. Render project

Martin Guitar · February 17th, 2011, 05:12 PM

Good stuff, here's some additional notes:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Convert to Cineform

2. Set AE to 16 bit in project settings

3. Add clip to composition

4. Apply Neat Video noise reduction process (enable ‘very low freq’)

* Very low freq is for very dark noisy shots like the one shown in the demo. If you are cleaning up well exposed footage you don't really have to check that unless there's large gradients (like a blue sky).

5. Apply ‘blur & sharpen>unsharp mask’ (default settings)
6. Apply ‘blur & sharpen>sharpen’ (12)

*These settings are to be adjusted to your need I really don't recommend "12" of sharpening on every shots. Unsharp mask default of 50 is a good starting point but again adjust to your needs.

Sharpening could also be done when doing final grading in your NLE. It would be better to do it at that point so you can adjust sharpness for each shot and go back and forth for matching the look of your sequences. In Premiere CS5 you have access to the same sharpening tools as in After Effects.

In extreme cases of noise reduction where 1 part of the frame is well exposed and the rest not so much I recommend cleaning up the shot and then dragging another instance of the same footage but with no processing and masking the well exposed parts (add some feather around your mask to soften it up). That way you clean up the bad compression blocking but you retain the original sharpness of your well exposed elements. That might require roto if your subject is moving but it doesn't need to be super detailed roto...

7. Apply ‘noise and grain>noise’ (set amount to 0.4)
8. Composition>Make Movie
9. Output module settings:
• Format: Cineform AVI
• Channels: RGB+Alpha
• Depth: Trillions of colors+
• Format options: Set as desired
• Enable audio output if you want audio
10. Render project

Marc Salvatore · February 17th, 2011, 06:13 PM

Great additions, keep the notes coming if you discover more :)

Martin Guitar · February 17th, 2011, 06:19 PM

I am considering doing another tutorial on how to restore a practically unusable shot to a flawless looking shot ready for CC but it's a lot of work to put together... maybe next month.

Best,

Martin

Marc Salvatore · February 17th, 2011, 06:31 PM

In regards to the sharpening in your editor as opposed to AE would this still apply when editing in Vegas (8bit) or would I get better quality by sharpening in AE (16bit)? Thanks

Martin Guitar · February 17th, 2011, 07:39 PM

Im not familiar with Vegas but I saw on their website the information below. It looks like you can work in 10bit.

---------------------------- from the specs of Vegas 10

Enhanced 32-bit floating point video levels mode designed to work like 8-bit mode but with the precision needed for 10-bit and higher sources and render formats
----------------------------

With that said I really don't know anything about Vegas.

February 13th, 2011, 06:41 PM	#1
Martin Guitar Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 115	Canon DSLR Footage 10-Bit Colorspace Up-conversion Tutorial using Cineform Canon DSLR Footage 10-Bit Colorspace Up-conversion Tutorial on Vimeo

February 13th, 2011, 08:37 PM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	To do a 16-bit export, select RGB+Alpha and Trillion+ colors. The video shows an 8-bit export from After Effects, but otherwise is a cool workflow. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

February 13th, 2011, 08:55 PM	#3
Martin Guitar Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 115	Video is now updated with the correct 16 bit settings. Thanks David! Last edited by Martin Guitar; February 13th, 2011 at 09:57 PM.

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February 15th, 2011, 07:31 PM	#4
Marc Salvatore Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Medford, OR Posts: 351	Martin, Thank you! I'm starting to edit a big project and I will be using your workflow. One question I have is why did you not use the sharpening within Neat Video? I've always found that to work well since the program seems to know not to sharpen the noise. Thanks, Marc

February 15th, 2011, 07:51 PM	#5
Martin Guitar Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 115	Thank you Marc. I found that sharpening within Neat Video did sharpen some unwanted artifact on low light (really noisy) shots but that might be me doing something wrong in Neat Video... Best of luck with your project!

February 16th, 2011, 12:18 PM	#6
Greg Fiske Major Player Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Santa Ana, CA Posts: 499	Marc, thanks for sharing! Great job.

February 16th, 2011, 05:38 PM	#7
Marc Salvatore Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Medford, OR Posts: 351	Martin, I did a comparison of Neat video sharpening vs. AE and you're right, AE looks better. What version of AE are you using? I'm still with CS3 and Neat Video is a real render hog. Are you using the 64bit CS5? If so, is it much faster? Regards, Marc

February 16th, 2011, 05:56 PM	#8
Martin Guitar Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 115	Yes i'm on 64Bit CS5 and it's pretty fast specially when you render on multiple cores.

February 16th, 2011, 06:06 PM	#9
Marc Salvatore Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Medford, OR Posts: 351	Thanks, this might give me an excuse to upgrade :)

February 17th, 2011, 04:41 PM	#10
Marc Salvatore Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Medford, OR Posts: 351	Martin, I put together a cheat sheet of your tutorial. Thanks again. 1. Convert to Cineform 2. Set AE to 16 bit in project settings 3. Add clip to composition 4. Apply Neat Video noise reduction process (enable ‘very low freq’) 5. Apply ‘blur & sharpen>unsharp mask’ (default settings) 6. Apply ‘blur & sharpen>sharpen’ (12) 7. Apply ‘noise and grain>noise’ (set amount to 0.4) 8. Composition>Make Movie 9. Output module settings: • Format: Cineform AVI • Channels: RGB+Alpha • Depth: Trillions of colors+ • Format options: Set as desired • Enable audio output if you want audio 10. Render project

February 17th, 2011, 05:12 PM	#11
Martin Guitar Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 115	Good stuff, here's some additional notes: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 1. Convert to Cineform 2. Set AE to 16 bit in project settings 3. Add clip to composition 4. Apply Neat Video noise reduction process (enable ‘very low freq’) * Very low freq is for very dark noisy shots like the one shown in the demo. If you are cleaning up well exposed footage you don't really have to check that unless there's large gradients (like a blue sky). 5. Apply ‘blur & sharpen>unsharp mask’ (default settings) 6. Apply ‘blur & sharpen>sharpen’ (12) *These settings are to be adjusted to your need I really don't recommend "12" of sharpening on every shots. Unsharp mask default of 50 is a good starting point but again adjust to your needs. Sharpening could also be done when doing final grading in your NLE. It would be better to do it at that point so you can adjust sharpness for each shot and go back and forth for matching the look of your sequences. In Premiere CS5 you have access to the same sharpening tools as in After Effects. In extreme cases of noise reduction where 1 part of the frame is well exposed and the rest not so much I recommend cleaning up the shot and then dragging another instance of the same footage but with no processing and masking the well exposed parts (add some feather around your mask to soften it up). That way you clean up the bad compression blocking but you retain the original sharpness of your well exposed elements. That might require roto if your subject is moving but it doesn't need to be super detailed roto... 7. Apply ‘noise and grain>noise’ (set amount to 0.4) 8. Composition>Make Movie 9. Output module settings: • Format: Cineform AVI • Channels: RGB+Alpha • Depth: Trillions of colors+ • Format options: Set as desired • Enable audio output if you want audio 10. Render project

February 17th, 2011, 06:13 PM	#12
Marc Salvatore Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Medford, OR Posts: 351	Great additions, keep the notes coming if you discover more :)

February 17th, 2011, 06:19 PM	#13
Martin Guitar Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 115	I am considering doing another tutorial on how to restore a practically unusable shot to a flawless looking shot ready for CC but it's a lot of work to put together... maybe next month. Best, Martin

February 17th, 2011, 06:31 PM	#14
Marc Salvatore Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Medford, OR Posts: 351	In regards to the sharpening in your editor as opposed to AE would this still apply when editing in Vegas (8bit) or would I get better quality by sharpening in AE (16bit)? Thanks

February 17th, 2011, 07:39 PM	#15
Martin Guitar Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 115	Im not familiar with Vegas but I saw on their website the information below. It looks like you can work in 10bit. ---------------------------- from the specs of Vegas 10 Enhanced 32-bit floating point video levels mode designed to work like 8-bit mode but with the precision needed for 10-bit and higher sources and render formats ---------------------------- With that said I really don't know anything about Vegas.