when you load them in 9.0b and smartrender them (if possible) what happens then to the green frames in 9.0c/d?

Ron, let's stick to the 9.0d for a while.

The answer is two-fold:

1. Smart-rendering is now possible (which is good - see my post about on what happened before)

2. Unlike in 8.0c, smart-rendering using the 50 Mbps 4:2:2 template now produces exactly that - a 50 Mbps file.This is disappointing; I was hoping SCS would fix smart-rendering so that it works exactly like in the 8.0c (i.e. you can preserve the 100 Mbps bit rate). Of course, this has never been explicitly or formally supported (after all, the template is CBR 50) - but still a pity. The best workflow scenario would be to preserve the higher bitrates as long as only possible (certainly through smart-rendering)

3. Of course, the smart-rendered file doesn't show the leading green frame any more, but this is nothing new (also before, in 9.0c, after any kind of rendering, I could get rid of the green frame). This however is not a solution to the problem: as I said, the idea of acquiring in high bitrates is to keep that bitrate as long as possible into the edits, and believe me - editing a multi camera, multi take, multi event project with all single take / event starting with a green frame can be a nightmare!

I had earlier mxf files from other recording devices and they don't have the green frames. Why is it that the nano-files do this?

Dan & Tommy,

Any news from SCS about the green frames in long-GOP / black frames in I-frame clips from the nano?

It's been a while now :(

Dear Dan & Tommy,

Just wanted to update you on something you probably know by now - but here it goes, anyway:

- while the HD mxf clips have the above mentioned problems with green (Long-GoP) or black (I-frame) frames, the SD IMX clips behave perfectly on Vegas Pro 9.0d timeline. No green/black frames, and very easy to edit.

Please update us whether we can count on a similar behavior of nanoFlash HD mfx; have SCS actually comment on the problem (persistent with all minor versions of VP 9.0)? Any hope for fixing this in the future Vegas releases?

It's so frustrating to work with nanoFlash clips, while the basic (i.e. lower-quality) SxS clips display OK in this otherwise great NLE...

TIA,

Piotr

Hi,

With brief testing it appears Vegas 9.0d fixed a problem we were having w/ our I-Frame only files, which in 9.0c would produce a black frame every 15 to 30 seconds. 9.0d does not exhibit this problem that we can see.

However the initial green frame problem (1st couple of frames of a clip) with our long-Gop files is still there. We have been in communication with Vegas and are still waiting for news of a fix for this.

Tommy

Tommy, Dan and Mike,

Can we Vegas users count on CD seriously working on this problem with SCS? It's been more than half a year now...

Dear Piotr,

Sony Creative Software is responsible for Sony Vegas.

As far as I know, there is nothing wrong with the files we create.

Our files play fine in other editors.

Maybe you could try this test:

1. Render a file whose first frame is Green.

2. Place the rendered file on the Vegas timeline.

3. Check if any frames are missing.

Personally, I do not know why Vegas is showing the first frame is green. I do not know what they are trying to indicate by the green frame. I have searched in the Help system to no avail.

And we have reported the issue to Sony.

When I see a green frame in the timeline,the frame shows properly in the Preview Window.

Dan,

I know it's SCS who's responsible for Vegas, but it's some strange problem in the nano L-GoP structure/header that causes Vegas to display the green frames. I believe CD should press SCS to find and correct this.

Yes, when I render such a clip, it sometimes happens that the leading frame(s) are missing (display black) in the output file.

Piotr, have you been able to have Vegas "hear" the sound from your nF files? If so, how?

Adam,

I don't know what you mean - the audio is still 1 frame behind the video, but it's there. What do you mean exactly?

Well, I have not been using my nF for a while, but when I first got it and was testing it, Vegas could not recognize the sound at all. I had to open the files in VLC and export the sound to a separate .wav file and use that in Vegas instead of the original sound within the mxf file.

When I mentioned it here, Dan said their files were perfect and it was a Vegas problem. I have not been using my nF since as it is quite worthless to me if I have to go such tricks to get the sound out of it.

Dear Adam,

May I recommend that you download Vegas 9.0e and run a test?

I think you will find that audio is not a problem.

Yes, that was a problem with one of Vegas minor updates, if I remember correctly - it's now gone in the current 9.0e.

But, the 1-frame audio lag is still there....

Dear Piotr,

Just to confirm, are you using 1.6.29?

In order for us to duplicate what you are reporting, I will need some info:

Are you using Embedded or Analog Audio Input to the nanoFlash?

What file format: QT or MXF or MPG?

What bit-rate?

Video Details: 1080 / 720, frame rate, Pulldown Removal and any other special options?

Our testing has not shown the 1 frame delay that you are reporting. But, we can re-test.

Our tester did say that it was difficult to check the audio/video sync exactly in Vegas. But we also test it in other NLEs.

Yes, I have 9.0e but this happened before that time. I'll have to check it again, then. Thanks.

Nope - I'm on the 1.5.126. I've spent enough time beta testing - perhaps in the future, I'll be able to afford some more. I'll only upgrade when the power saving mode is back.

Sorry if my statement on the audio lag introduced confusion; can any Vegas user confirm it's now OK with the current 1.6.29?

Dear Piotr,

As far as we know the audio sync is fine in 1.6.29.

(1.6.29 is a production level release, not a Public Beta. It has been out since June 29, 2010)

We are reporting, in another thread any problems with 1.6.29 that we find or are reported to us.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/converge...-1-6-29-a.html

Dear Friends,

We have been working with Sony concerning the Green Frame in the Timeline issue.

This issue is only in Sony Vegas, no other NLE, as far as I know.

We have found a way to eliminate the "Green Frame". We have implemented this in an internal firmware release and this improvement will be in our next firmware release.

As we are making other improvements and we have lots of testing to do, please understand that it will be a few weeks before we post the new release.

I've witnessed the absence of sound on one clip made with latest Nano 1.6.29 and played with Vegas 9.0e . VLC played the clip correctly with audio.

Yes, exactly my problem, except it is not just one clip, it is all of them. And I have just double-checked, the problem still exists in Vegas 9.0e. It is only with the files produced by the nF. The .mxf files created by my EX3 do not have that problem. So, clearly, the problem is with the nano.

Adam, this was the case for only one MXF file created by the Nano. The MP4 file recorded in parallel by the EX1 from its BPAV folder played the audio in Vegas.

What I meant was that all of my nano clips have that problem.

Dear Adam,

Are you saying that all files that you record on the nanoFlash are such that the audio is not played in your copy of Sony Vegas 9.0e?

Does the audio play in Sony's Clip Viewer, version 2.30 or the VLC Player?

Dan, we went through this months ago, and I stopped using my nF after that (what is the point of using it if I cannot get any sound out of it?).

It plays in VLC, but there is no sound in Vegas. Not in 9.0c which I used back then, not in 9.0e which I use now.

As you can see in the picture, the entire sound time line shows nothing. And no sound plays either. None whatsover. Nada. Zilch.

Dear Adam,

I wanted to be certain what you meant by "that" problem.

Your situation is unusual.

As I understand it:

You can record video and audio in your nanoFlash.

When you play back the files in your nanoFlash you have video and audio.

When you play the files in VLC Player you have video and audio.

When you play the files in Sony Vegas 9.0e, you have no audio.


This certainly sounds like a Sony Vegas problem to me.

Just yesterday, one of my friends had problems with video capture with his Sony Vegas 9.0e. A simple download and re-install fixed the problem.

As far as I know, no one else has your symptoms.

I just checked my Sony Vegas 9.0e, using one of our sample files with audio, and it plays fine.

This has nothing to do with video capture, Dan. And my Vegas has no problem with the sound of any other source.

Had you offered me to upload one of my own files and checked it out, I would have been much more impressed. As it is, I feel robbed of thousands of dollars with no recourse.

Dear Adam,

I will be happy to have you upload one of your files.

We want you to be happy.

Are the other files that you are playing successfully in your copy of Sony Vegas Sony XDCam 50 Mbps 4:2:2? You may be using other codecs, which may work fine.

It still sounds like a Vegas issue to me. I will send you our file upload instructions.

Then we will play your files in our copy of Sony Vegas 9.0e.

Dear Adam,

I have emailed you our file upload instructions and my phone numbers.

Thank you, Dan, I have uploaded the file. The other MXF files I have are from the EX-3, which, I believe, is 35 Mbps 4:2:0. However, it is the audio I do not get, the video is flawless and well worth it.

Hi,

the uploaded file is a 1080p30 "true 30" file, as opposed to the more commonly used 29.97 frame rate.
True frame rates have at best limited support in most NLE's - unfortunately Vegas does not play the audio in this case.

Tommy Schell

OK, I have now told Vegas to use the 29.97 drop-frame rate instead, and it still does not play the audio.

Any solutions?

Dear Adam,

Tommy was saying that the frame rate of the take was True 30 frames a second.

Can you please set your camera to record in the normal 1080p29.97 instead of 1080p30 (True).

Sony Vegas does not play audio when the frame rate is True 30 frames a second.

It did not come from my camera, it came from the HDMI port of my computer. As you may recall, one of the main reasons for me getting the nano was to be able to capture my computer screen so I can create software tutorials.

Meanwhile, I have installed Audacity and told Vegas to use it as an external audio editor. Audacity says it can handle MXF files, but not this one...

Dear Adam,

Some Non-Linear Editors will properly handle the audio from 1080p30 (True) sources.

You may try a demo download of Edius.

Or you could ask Sony Creative Software to see if they will support your needs. They may have a way to tweak your Vegas settings so the audio will play.

Is there any way to get the computer to output 29.97 instead of true 30 over HDMI?

Tommy

I have just tried it and it offered 30i and 29i but not 29.97i. When I chose either, it worked, which surprised me as the manual of my monitor does not mention it. Normally I have it set to 60 Hz and that is how I made that file.

I'll have to dig out my nano and see if it makes any difference, probably over the weekend.

Though it still does not make sense to me. It shows the video just fine. It is the video rate that is 30 fps. The audio rate is 48 kHz. So, if anything, it should have trouble with the video not the audio (not that that would make me happier). When I ran the same file through VLS and saved the output to a .wav file and I drag the .wav file on the timeline, it plays both the audio and the video and they are perfectly synchronized. So I seriously doubt the problem is with using true 30.

OK, I have just run two different tests. I used SUPER® to convert the .MXF file to a .MPG file in the stream copy (no transcoding) mode. This time even VLC could not hear the sound, though it saw the video. Then I used SUPER® to convert it to a .wav file, again in the stream copy mode. That was success. And if I drag the .wav on the Vegas timeline, it has no problem with it.

So, at least, now I have a workaround. It is an extra step, but it is much simpler to get the .wav out of it with SUPER® than with VLC. I can live with that.

Dan, I found some Nano MXF files that play sound in either Vegas 9.0e but not in VLC 1.05 (1.10 stutters on MXF audio files) . I recorded the Sony EX1 in parallel to SxS, so I have the same scene with audio. These were recorded on December 29, 2009, though I can't remember which firmware. I have not loaded beta firmware but usually get to the official release firmware within a week of announcement.LongGOP100 MBps at 1080p30. Vegas shows the audio in the time-line.

I have shots from later on that day (prebuffer on) with audio that play in both Vegas and VLC. The difference is that the silent-in-VLC Nano MXF files have audio recorded only to the right channel while the proper files have the same audio in both channels with that EX1 audio input mode that routes the left mic to both channels. For the Silent-in-VLC files, Vegas shows the audio in the right channel for both Nano and SxS. I had one shotgun mic in two channel record mode for the Silent-in-VLC recordings and in Channel1-to-Both-Channels mode for the proper recordings.

Here are the two files, prebuffer off.
Index of /Videos/Nanoflash/Test_SilentNano

Stan, what are your Vegas Project settings? Would you mind creating a very short 10MByte Nano file (say 18 MBps setting for LongGOP) with audio from your BlackMagic HDMI out and emailing it to me? I don't think Yahoo allows for a total encoded size of greater than 25 MBytes.