nanoflash + nex-vg10
 

Dear Dan and Terrance

hey, vg10 + nanoflash are a great companion togeter: I just confirm that the signal is precompretion in a chroma key test; and you can pull out 24p from your vg10 in the nanoflash, you have to turn on the PSF recording mode in the nanoflash and then undercracking to 24p 24, and the audio is sincronic too.
www.gecofilms.cl

Gerardo
Did you get any sense of how much it is pre-compressing, like HDCAM? Your end result, they are Progressive Segmented Frames then?
Terry

Dear Terrance,

While I am not in Chile performing the tests with Gerardo, I am certain that the output of the NEX-VG10 is Progressive Segmented Frames

I read Gerardo email wrong, so that's great - PSF 24P, precompressed and good chance of audio sync. For the price and knowing how Sony is a bit tight with features, the camera with the feature packed nano is a great deal!

EVU or LCD monitor
 

Gerardo, what are you thinking of using for a field monitor? Bought a lower end 7" marshal but not the greatest. Are you going to look at the Redrock or Zacuto EVF when they get out?
Terry

Dear Terrance,

As I understand your posts, by Precompression, you mean that the signal out of the NEX-VG10 is uncompressed.

And yes, that would be true.

I expect the signal out of the Sony NEX-VG10 to be 4:2:2 uncompressed.

It could actually be 4:4:4 uncompressed also.

The Canon HV30, HV40 and possibly others actually output 4:4:4 over HDMI and the nanoFlash accepts and processes the signal using only the 4:2:2 material for recording.

Yes, uncompressed is what I meant. With regards to the HV20. I have been using one for a few years and with the nano in the last while. The Nex VG10 beats it out sensor-wise big time. Just in detail alone. I am going to start playing with the audio on nanoflash. Only need mono or 2 track at best. Any tips for compact powered submixers to the 1/8 input on nanoflash?

Dear Terrance,

The nanoFlash can accept:

One Balance Mic/Line Input

Two Unbalanced Mic/Line Inputs

These analog inputs are recorded at 24-bits / 48K.

The nanoFlash does not provide Phantom Power.

Thus, certain mics can be connected to the nanoFlash directly, others may need a cable, or others may need an adapter that provides Phantom Power.

The Juicedlink and Beachtek products could solve certain scenarios.

But many situations may not need an adapter.

So, what mics or audio sources do you have, so I can be of more assistance?

Dear Dan,
8b 4:4:4 YUV means 2.5 Gbs out of the HDMI, so very close to a Dual-link SDI.
Can you confirm that?
Best,
rafael

Dear Rafael,

I can confirm that Canon informed us that the output of the HV30/HV40 is 4:4:4 and this is via HDMI.

I have not personally tested this.

Hello Terrance,
I'm a huge fan of the Mix Pre from Sound Devices. Though it's a little bigger than the 'ride-on input adapters', it is exceptionally clean with wonderful preamps - and excellent limiters that keep suddenly loud audio usable when my older field mixer would be off the scale with distortion. I haven't gone strainght into the NanoFlash from it (I use it with an EX1, so I normally get the Nano audio from the HD-SDI), but it has both balanced XLR line outs and an (unbalanced) 3.5mmm trs line out plug that I've often used to feed a Sony PCM-M10 recorder for transcriptions. Plus it runs on 2 - AA batteries (for a very long time when I use the Energizer lithiums, even when using it to power 48v phantom mics)

nanoflash + nex-vg10
 

Terrance,
I use a Lilliput monitor via HDMI, is a great monitor, but is not full progresive, so if you try to play the nanoflash files the monitor go blue. But have a nice resolution to make a nice focus work. Any way, here I live you a test of chroma key, is a simple and fast chroma, no perfect chroma background but works, and I made a 9x amplification of the videos to see the real detail in the edges:

www.gecofilms.cl

Dear Friends,

I am a huge fan of Sound Devices products.

I have a 302 mixer and a 744t recorder.

Both are outstanding products as are their other products.

The nanoFlash analog in is compatible with the Tape Out from most any mixer. This is usually a Stereo or two-channel unbalanced audio output, perfect for the Analog Audio input of the nanoFlash.

And many tape outs are 3.5mm mini-jack (1/8" inch), thus a simple low cost cable is all that is needed.

Dear Dan,
I've mixed my self up about the data rate.
That HDMI would be able to carry 444 RGB not only at 8b, but 36b and even more.
Amazing.
Cheers,
rafael

Hi Dan

Don't know what audio sources I will go for yet. I imagine I will rent a boom and mic as I am not my Rodes will be good enough.
Terry

Thanks for the audio tips. I will look into the Sound Device.

Terry

Gerardo,
Thanks for the key demo. By chance have you tried any more experimenting with the under and over crank. On a show I work on we are always doing the 60i source then field split for slow mo. It's on HD CAM. Might try the nanoflash and see if it can be done that way.

Dear Terrance,

I am not familar with the term "Field Split".

Maybe I am saying it wrong. The process is this: shoot 60i, which then has 2 fields per frame. In After FX or Motion (Apple) you then make each field an independent frame thus making your 29.97 (60i) into 60 FPS. Cheater's Sow Mo. You fix the chroma loss in colour correction.

nanoflash + nex-vg10
 

Dear Terrance,
The siganal of the nex-vg10 is progresive, and put in a 60i conteiner, that why you have 60i final files from the AVCHD, so when you analyse the material in post you will find 2 identical fields, then gonna be much easy to make the prosses you mentioned before.
www.gecofilms.cl

Dear Gerado
I was just explaining "field split for slow mo for Dan.
But while you are on line, can you tell me a few things about the nanoflash set up.
Are you using long GOP or Iframe?
Terry

nanoflash + nex-vg10
 

Hi,
I use I-Frame only in 280 or 220, crank to 24p; if you have a fast car you will see that the bit rate will drop to 224 when you use 280, that is because of the crank seting in 24 ( less info to record ). And I use I-Frame because I notice a better result in the chroma process than with Long GOP. I remove the card from the camera to eliminate any info in the screen, and conect a Lilliput monitor to my nanoflash. I made a conector to use sony NP-L970 bateries with the monitor, and last forever, more than 7 hours.
www.gecofilms.cl

nanoflash + nex-vg10
 

hi, here is my rig for the nanoflash + nex-vg10, is working as a shoulder system too

nanoflash + nex-vg10
 

where I put "car" must to be "card", sorry

Could someone please let me know if there is any benefit of using a nano flash with the Sony NEX-VG10?

what about moire? when you record with the nano flash can you improve image quality and remove moire artefacts?

or the only benefit is for Chroma Keying

Thanks

Sorry, but what Gerardo proposes (duplicating frames) is just a waist of resources and wont ever yields a good slow-mo.
You need to get ONE FRAME PER FIELD, so TWO DIFFERENT pictures per frame.
You will always get a MUCH better Slow-mo from a 1080i60, than from any 1080p30.
To get this, the only solution I know, is with "Re-Vision FieldsKit"
You convert your 1080i60 to 1080p60, getting ALL the frames different.
Then you Conform to 1080p30.
rafael

The benefits of the NANO are on avoiding much Chroma Subsampling (422 instead of 420) and avoiding too much compression. This is nothing about Chroma-key, but about keeping more of the original info collected by the camera captors.
The NANO can not "cure" artifacts, moire or any other kind of distortion produced by camera head, but will avoid further degradation on recording.
rafael

nanoflash + nex-vg10
 

Dear Rafael,
For slow motion now I'm usin Boris BCC 7 with Optical Flow, is like Twixtor, and you can do really slow motions at 3000 fps. Any way back to Nanoflash and NEX-VG10, what you really get is the option to grade your footage in post whitout the problems of 420, so if you will make a color correction to the green color, you are and not make any changes to the blues; but in 420 always you have contaminations betwen colors when you do a color correction. That is one of the most important things of using 422 instead of 420.
NEX-VG10 video: www.gecofilms.cl

Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash?
 

[QUOTE=Dan Keaton;1603529]Dear Terrance,

We only support audio in a few crank options.

I need to discuss this with our Chief Engineer.

Each and every cranking combination (Base Frame Rate + Crank Rate) requires special code in the nanoFlash to support audio.

We may, in the future, be able to support more of the popular combinations with audio.
This is not a promise at this time.


HI DAN

Any answers with regards to the audio. Which cranks are supported - 25p to 24p by chance?
BTW. My eye is not good enough to tell but is this really happening, I'm getting a true 24p undercranking from the camera output at 25p ?
Terry

Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash?
 

Dear Terrance,

I asked our Chief Engineer previously.

When one Cranks at 24/24 or 25/25, or 30/30, one should get audio.

If you have a 25p source, may I just suggest a test?

Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash?
 

Gerardo,

Did you de-noise the video you posted here? For a camera like the VG10, it looks absolutely clean and noise free! Do you use Neatvideo, or alike?

Piotr

Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash?
 

in some shots I use Neatvideo because I choose a noisy picture profile in the camera, but that was in a few shots

Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash?
 

Dan
Can you confirm that the I-frame is true I-frame? The reason I am asking is someone I work with tells me that with the sony mfx codec it is not possible to have an I-frame.
Terry

Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash?
 

Dear Terrance,

The Sony XDCam Codec is a Long-GOP codec.

We call ours "I-Frame Only".

Thus, all of the frames are I-Frame within the GOP (Group of Pictures).

Thus, your NLE will process the GOP but each frame will be an I-Frame (Intra-Frame Compression).

I hope this helps.

Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash?
 

Dan
Thanks. You were even kind enough to not mention my mistake in the codec. BTW, I just ordered the Zacuto EVF.That completes my package. I have a Canada Art Council grant to shoot my next feature (my films mostly get festival and art-house cinema play) . I will be shooting NEWVG10 to NANOFLASH with third-party lens. Looking forward to being able to shoot high-end pictures at a fraction of the cost from a few years ago.

Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash?
 

Dear Terrance,

That is great news.

Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash?
 

I was thinking about getting an F3, but thought I would wait it out until Sony came out with the "next one". In the meantime I thought I would pick up a refurb NEX VG10. I can use other lenses and get the big sensor factor when I don't want all the hassle of my EX-3 with a Letus. I should have it in a day or two.

To get clean HDMI out do you need to be recording, or do you just take out the SD card from the camera?
Looks like I can feed the nanoFlash with HDMI and view video on the SDI out... is that correct? I only have SDI monitors.

Thanks,
George

Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash?
 

Hello Greg,

You can record to the nanoFlash via HDMI or SDI, With or Without recording internally to the camera, but note since it is HDMI based, if you hit record on the Camera that will not trigger the nanoFlash, Like you can with your EX3 via a Timecode trigger.

So to record from a HDMI camera, it simply needs to be on and the HDMi out set for the Desired frame rate with the nanoFlash.

And yes if you feed the nanoFlash SDI or HDMI in, we always broadcast the same signal to both outputs, giving you the most flexibility when it comes to monitors.

Hope that Helps

Best Regards

Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash?
 

Thank you Andy,

I will have the camera in a few days and I will try out some different Nano settings to see what is possible. As always, the Nano continues to amaze me at its capabilities.

George

Re: Sony NEX-VG10 + NanoFlash?
 

I am trying to locate a 2 foot mini HDMI to mini HDMI cable... anyone found one? Monoprice has a 9".. that is too short to mount the nano in a good place.