I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

I need help understanding how the Odyssey 7Q works with the FS700.

1. I understand that we will have to wait for Sony to upgrade the camera, there may or may not be a cost involved.

2. We have to then buy the 7Q [], and an Odyssey/Convergent Design branded SSD. [ for 240GB] in order to use the free DNxHD codec.

3. This part confuses me. We then have to pay another for FS700 support? Does it not record 2K raw out the box?

It is said that if you buy a Odyssey SSD, you get free Avid DNxHD recording, but the FS700 does Cinema DNG. Could someone please clarify this for me?

With all that said, does this mean that the final costs to record 2k will be:

Sony Upgrade [$ Unknown] + Odyssey 7Q [] + SSD [] + FS700 support [] which totals to ? If not, please clarify

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

if you just want to record 2k with DNXHD, get a blackmagic shuttle 2, it is only 350$ and you can use regular SSD (while from a limited brand and model).

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

But then be aware you can only record at a maximum of 30 fps, so it won't be able to capture the Super Slomo of the FS700. For that you need a recording option of 60 fps.

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Hi - I am Mike Wattley, Sales Manager at Symbiosis, the EMEA Distributor for Convergent Design. Basically you buy the Convergent Design Odyssey 7Q, which includes the DNxHD recording capability at no extra cost, you do need to buy an SSD to use this feature. You can then add an extra Codec, for example support for the FS700, this is done via the Convergent Design website (this can be purchased, or you can rent it on a daily basis).

The costs will be confirmed shortly, but you would need:

Odyssey 7Q
SSD(s)
FS700 Support (the Sony upgrade & FS700 support are one in the same)

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Thanks Mike. Someone told me that with a 7Q and Convergent Design SSD, you can record 2K compressed, but paying for FS700 support will get you 2K RAW

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

This model has the potential to be a PR disaster seeing how much confusion has been generated even before the first one has shipped.

I hope everyone ordering one understands what options are needed for their application and their costs to get a functional system.

I strongly recommend CD offer ONLY "Packages" based around the different cameras they will support. Selling this thing a la cart is going to be trouble.

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

CD announced codec pricing today.

FS700 RAW codec: Purchase: $1495 Rental: $75/day
includes HD/2K Raw up to 240fps (.dng format) and Quad HD/4K YCC Uncompressed up to 30fps (.dpx format) for the Sony FS700 (the HXR-IF5 interface module is not required).

http://ci34.actonsoftware.com/acton/...reparedMessage

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Hi Cees-
We upped the CODEC performance on the base model to 60fps to support super slowmo capture off the FS700. Yes, you need an extra cost recording option for 120 and 240 fps, but you can record uninterrupted with the Odyssey7Q (OK, it's limited to 30 minutes of 2K @240fps using two 960GB cards).

Mike Schell
Convergent Design

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Hi Chris-
The record options are tied (as much as possible) to specific cameras: ARRIRAW, Canon C500, FS700, 2K Raw, etc. Each CODEC package supports all the capabilities in a given camera. The C500 package includes 4K Raw (up to 60fps), 4K Half-Raw (up to 120fps), HD/2K RGB 444 10/12-bit etc. The uncompressed and quad-stream recording option are not camera specific, since they support good old 1920x1080 HD video.

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Hi Yash-
The Odyssey7Q ($2295) includes DNxHD up to 60fps. We're hoping to add a second popular CODEC in the near future. If you want to record 2K/4K Raw from the FS700, you need to add this recording option (via a web-based purchase) for $1495 (unrestricted license) or rent for $75 per day.

The SSD pricing is 240GB = $595, 480GB = $1195, 960GB = $2195. You will need at least two 240GB SSDs to support 2K RAW @ 240fps, which at over 700MB/sec must be stripped over two drives (RAID0).

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

So, to get full functionality of the device with an FS700, you'll actually need to buy TWO Convergent Design SSD drives, not just one, right?

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

This is exactly what I'm talking Mike Schell. It seems simpler to those on the inside. Things need to be put together as packages with EVERYTHING that is needed to get a functional system going.

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Yes, if you want to record FS700 2K RAW at 240fps (which is over 700MB/sec), then you need at least two SSDs. They can both be 240GB in size. On the other hand, you only need one SSD for 120fps.

We're putting together a comprehensive chart to show all the various configurations.

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

On one hand the concept is really simple, on the other hand the options make it very complicated.
Add 'fast readers' to it and it gets even worse than this...

A short video or even better: an 'explainimation' could help getting the info across to the filmmaking crowd.
If you need any help with that.... ;-)

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Hi Walter-
Thanks for the feedback. We are trying to rearrange the recording options based on specific cameras. So, we'll have an ARRI Alexa, Sony FS700, Sony F3, Canon C300, Canon C500,etc packages. Basically each package will enable all the functions of a given camera, to the extend they are supported by the Odyssey. For example the Canon C500 will include 4K/QHD Raw, 2K/HD RGB 444 @ 10/12-bit, etc.

Do you think this would clarify the issue?

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

That sounds like a much more logical approach to me. Thumbs up from Efland NC.

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Hi Chris-
Thanks. BTW, we go our first RAW image off the FS700 today, recording at 240fps. The image looked good, but we will need to add viewing LUTs for proper display on the OLED monitor. Adobe Premiere debayered the cinema .dng file and produced a perfect image.

More info and images coming soon.

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

That's great to hear Mike. Can't wait to see some images. Was this a 2K image? And was it a stream of images or just a single as your comment implies?

Thanks for keeping us updated on the process. Looking forward to seeing Odysseys out in the wild!

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Hi David-
Yes, this was a 2K RAW video stream we captured (one file per frame). It debayered perfectly in Premiere or Resolve. We captured about a minute of video.

We can now announce that the 2K RAW data is 12-bit precision. The standard HD-SDI video, on the other hand, is limited to 8-bits.

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Dear Friends,

We plan on showing an upgraded Sony FS700 + Odyssey7Q + FS700 Recording Option at Cine Gear Expo, in Hollywood, on Friday, May 31st and Saturday June 1st.

We plan to be recording 2K Raw, 12-Bit Linear, at 240 fps at the event.

This will be a hands-on event.

Our Booth is S222, on Sound Stage 32, on the Paramount Studios Lot in Hollywood.

We are across the isle from Sony, Booth S218.

Respectfully,

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Is this with S-Log2, which supposedly comes with the update to do 4k?

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Hmmm, that's disappointing to hear. This is from a Sony upgraded FS700?

Does anyone have any idea when Sony will start doing the upgrades?

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Hi David-
Yes, this is from an upgraded FS700. We're hearing end of June for upgrades.

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Hi Yash-
Yes, S-Log2 is included. As with any LUT, this is applied downstream from the RAW recording.

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Mike,
I was wondering if you are still able to cache record 8 seconds (or any duration for that matter) when overcranking and going to the Odyssey? This has been an invaluable feature on the FS700 and would love to see this feature carried over.
Thanks.

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Hi David-
Just want to make sure I understand your question. When you mention over-cranking, are you referring to frame rates greater than 30fps (such as 60, 120 or 240fps). Or do you mean over-cranking in the more traditional sense in which you set the timeline to 24fps and then capture at higher frame rates (usually up to 60fps).

In either scenario, we will have a pre-record (cache) buffer of around 8 seconds, but only while recording in compressed mode, which is limited to 60fps. We don't have enough memory on board to cache RAW video as the data-rates are simply too high.

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Dear David,

I would like to add some information to Mike's answer.

If you have the original FS700, you can record at high frame rates, for xx seconds.

Then the camera will output these images at 60 frames per second, typically 1080p60.

Our Odyssey7 and Odyssey7Q will be able to record these images since they can both record to a compressed codec (initially Avid DNxHD) from a 1080p60 input stream.

In the above case, no extra cost option is necessary, the ability to record up to 1080p60 is included in the Odyssey7 and Odyssey7Q. You, of course, will need at least one of our SSD's, in this case just one 240 GB SSD will work fine.

----------------------------

If you have the upgraded FS700, then our FS700 Recording Option comes into play, allowing you to record 2K Raw, in 12-Bit Linear, up to 240 fps continuously.

With one SSD, you can record up to 120 fps continuously.

With two SSD's, you can record up to 240 fps continuously.

Respectfully,

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Thanks for your replies Mike & Dan. Pre-record is what I was curious about and I think Mike answered my question. For shooting slow motion I have found it to be an invaluable tool when trying to capture events that I am unsure when exactly they will happen.

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Dan,
Would I be right to assume that if you record 240fps continuous on the Odyssey7Q it will be possible to play it back off the 7Q in full res at slo-mo speed? - thereby allowing selected sections to be transferred to another recording device such as a NanoFlash?
You may recall I did this type of thing with great success recording 1080p60 from the F3 to the Gemini, then playing selected clips back at 24p (2.5x slo-mo) and recording them onto my NanoFlash. (My client didn't want to deal with the large quantity of original data that we created win the Gemini - and our selective transfers meant he went into the edit room with what he needed, not all the extra footage he didn't want. Project worked out great. He even added some software-based slowing down in post for some of the shots)
Will different base playback speeds be possible (60p / 30p / 24p) for footage recorded at 120 or 240, or is the target playback rate burned in as part of the file header?
Thanks

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Post Deleted, I accidently pressed enter too soon.

The complete post in the next post in this thread.

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Yes, you will be able to set the "Project Frame Rate", so that you can control the playback speed, and this also sets the frame rate for playback in a Non-Linear Editor.

Thus, you can setup to record FS700 2K 12-Bit Linear Raw at 240 fps, and set the Project Frame Rate in the Odyssey7Q, and the playback will be at 24 fps.


Yes, we will setup desirable Project Frame Rates.


We have also had requests to be able to control playback frame rates, as desired before and during playback, without changing the Project Frame Rate", for playing back for the director.

And we have been asked to playback in reverse also.

Respectfully,

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Thanks Dan,
Reverse sounds particularly cool (and useful)

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Do I understand well that you are talking about a pre-record in the Odyssey and not about the high framerate buffer of the FS700?

I think you should really make a spec sheet of the several options for the different cameras. It is becoming too complex for me.

Re: I don't understand these costs for 2K raw with the Odyssey
 

Dear Cees,

We will come out with a more comprehensive spec sheet as soon as we can prepare one.

So, here are some answers.

The Odyssey7 and Odyssey7 will have a built-in Pre-Record Buffer when recording using a compressed codec. This is limited to a short time, in seconds, depending on the frame rate.

The original FS700 camera, and I assume the upgraded FS700 have a built-in Pre-Record Buffer which is used with the original High-Speed modes. This is limited to a short time, in seconds, depending on the frame rate.

And when using these modes, our FS700 Recording Option is not needed, but you are limited by the camera's Pre-Record Buffer size. And my best guess, is that if you want to use the built-in high-speed modes of the original camera, then the Odyssey7Q Pre-Record Buffer will not normally be used.

-------------------------------------

When using an upgraded FS700 Camera, the High Speed Output can be continuous for an unlimited amount of time.

And the Odyssey7Q with the FS700 Recording Option can record the FS700's 2K Raw, in 12-Bit, in Cinema DNG, at 240 fps, up to the maximum recording time on the SSD's.

Using two 240 GB SSD's, at 240 fps, this is around 10 minutes.
Using two 480 GB SSD's, at 240 fps, this is around 20 minutes.
Using two 960 GB SSD's, at 240 fps, this is around 40 minutes.

If one records at 240 fps, and plays back at 24 fps, then the playback time is 10 times the recording time, so one can have up to 400 minutes of playback time.

If one wants to record at 120 fps, then only one SSD will be necessary.

I hope this helps.

Respectfully,