VERY ODD!!!

I'm running 10.5.3 OS and can play the clips about 3/4 of the way before I get a lock up and can't do anything in Quicktime before I have to use force quit. I'll have to try the clips on other MACs to see what happens.

Now the great mystery, why does it screw up for me??? Even FCE (Final Cut Express) locks up on me with these files.

OK, I know my camera works sucks, but I only had a limited time in the store to try stuff.

As far as working with the camera, even with my limited time, I loved the camera, it had 1080/60i, 1080/30p, 480/60p, as well as a less than SD 300 FPS slow motion. Selecting things from the menu was so easy and operation was a breeze.

It was smart enough to jump from menu to record mode just by pushing the record button.

As far as size and weight, the camera is small and light weight. There's a good and a bad side to this... being small and light makes it easy to carry around, so it's more tempting to take it along, BUT being small and light makes it harder to hold steady.

IF I didn't have problems, I was ready to go back and buy it, but because I can't work with the files, I'm not going to get it until I know what went wrong and how to fix it. CRUD!!! So close and yet so far.


Bob Diaz

UPDATE:

I decided to test this on my son's MAC Mini and found the same lockup on playing the video 3/4 of the way. His is also OS X 10.5.3

Interesting... So, what OS X version are you running that does NOT cause the lock-up past 3/4 of the way through the video???

Thanks,

Bob Diaz

Hi Bob, I am using OS 10.4.11 with QT 7.5. There is something a bit odd about the files that may be causing the problem. They seem "slightly" corrupt. One of them has what I could only call dropout in it. I don't know what could have caused this, the other sample files that I have managed to try from this camera have been very clean from start to end. When I try to convert your files to another codec using QuickTime it does bomb out.

Mac OS X 10.5.3
2X 2.66 GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
3GB 667 MHz DDR2 FB-DIMM
Mac Pro

Clips played perfectly~

Hi Richard,

"the other sample files that I have managed to try from this camera have been very clean from start to end. "

If you were able to download these files from the internet, please post the link where you found them.

I wonder if the files you saw were 50i or 25P; where as the files I have are 60i, 30p, and 60p.


I find it odd that I can play part of the file OK, but the crash happens about 3/4 the way into the file. It's almost as if there's some glitch lying in wait. If this had happened on one file, I would write it off as a bad copy, but all the longer files have it. Now I wonder if somehow the card I used couldn't keep up and dropped a frame.


Bob Diaz

Bob, thats what I was thinking. I have had quicktime video files that have opened fine before but contain a glitch which freezes playback. The card you used was very low capacity? I think this camera likes SDHC cards. Shame the camera doesn't warn you. The fact is that these files are readable on a Mac. My recommendation would be to convert them to something more useable for editing like the apple intermediate codec.

http://www.vimeo.com/download/video:...57e45559fcb9b3

Clips play fine for me but have a few sections where the image looks corrupt. I do have the avc1Decoder codec installed - don't have the link here but I found it in the Xacti forum - and quicktime appears to be using it for playback.

Specifically looking at HDV_0004.MP4 I assume you don't have image stabilization enabled - if you do it appears quite useless, which could be a problem with a camera this small. However with the amount of shaking going on at full tele I was surprised to see little or no rolling shutter effect (the 'rubbery' look, not tilting verticals on pans) - it's certainly the least I've ever seen on a CMOS-based camera.

Actually from what i've seen- the video quality looks "allot" like the Xacti series.....nothing too special there- just my casual observances!

I'm beginning to wonder if I screwed up by using a tiny 512MB off brand SD card. A buffer overflow could cause a dropped frame that could screw up my MAC playback. Sadly, it looks like every program in my Mac uses the same drive to read the file, so the same lock-up occurs with every program. Thus, there's no way to convert the file to AIC.

Because I can play, stop, and exit Quicktime before the 3/4 point in the files, this suggests a glitch is in the files. Now I'm tempted to buy a class 4 SDHC card ($25 USA, equal to about 16 Euro) and re-do the test...


Bob Diaz

first review (that I've seen at least) up here:

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/17...corder-review/

Not incredibly detailed but overall positive review with some sample clips

Well it went quiet here for while we all digested the footage I guess. For me the Samsung pictures are too compressed. Not that there is anything wrong with compression but they really show it on anything moving. Back to HDV for me, probably an HV30.

Yeah I agree- miniDV compression was the best of the consumer formats with HDV second and now with these implementations of AVCHD and various .264 codecs- quality is worsening each time out~ what a terrible direction for home videographers!

Well, I downloaded all the video clips from the review and SURPRISE, they all play without any problems. Now I'm beginning to think that maybe the files I recorded had dropped frame(s) or some sort of glitch in them.

I may need to go back to Circuit City and try it again with a better memory card...


Bob Diaz

Maybe in the second tier brands... the Sony SR11 is a pretty clean implementation of AVCHD, better than HDV at a similar price point, if a little bit of effort to figure out the workflow.

Does anyone know how this Samsung VP-HMX20C compares to the Casio Exilim Pro EX-F1?

I can pick up the Samsung for about £175 now, but the Casio will cost me £450. I would only be using it for slo-motion (high FPS) video work.

Incidentally, I'm not worried about the 10-second restriction that the Samsung has, I will get what I need within that time. The most important factor is quality of the footage.

I have the Samsung VP-HMX20C. The video at 300 FPS isn't too bad, but there are times I notice some artifacts in the video. Here are 2 videos I posted on YouTube that show the results:

YouTube - Slow Motion Test

YouTube - Egg shot with a 22 at 300 FPS

A copy of one of the videos is on Vimeo:



Bob Diaz

Hi Bob,

Thanks for posting those, I went and had a look.

It doesn't look HD.. Are you able to edit in full 1080? Would you get the 60fps at 1080 and is it editable with programs like Adobe Premiere CS4?

One factor that is putting me off the Casio is the inability to edit the footage in Premiere CS4. I downloaded a clip from their site, http://www.exilim.com/intl/ex_f1/ima...v/CIMG0218.ZIP which is 28MB. All I get in Premiere is a green screen.

This is a serious put-off for the Casio. I must be able to edit it along with other h.264 footage. It appears to use its own codec hybrid. Not good at all. Why can't these camera manufacturers stick to the industry standard? Found this thread useful: Casio EX-F1 - FullHD (h.264) - VideoHelp.com

Thanks again Bob.

All the 300 FPS Slow motion footage is 448 x336. I'm uploading some 1080/30p footage so you can see the HD output of the camera.

Now many HD video cameras shoot 1080/60i and 108030p, but you are not going to see a camera shoot 1080/60p. TVs may offer that, but the video cameras don't offer that.

I use FCE (Final Cut Express), so I like to down convert the 1080/30p footage into 720/30p and edit in that resolution. FCE will edit the 1080/30p footage as 1080/60i, but I just like the 720/30p mode more.

I have never used Premiere CS4.


The link for the video is:


The tags I used for the video are: Idaho, winter, ice, snow, Samsung, HMC20c, camera, 1080p, test, video, 30p, farm, Bob, Diaz, BobDiaz

If you want to go direct to Vimeo and search for it. If you have an account with Vimeo and log into it, you can download the source file.


Bob Diaz

The Sanyo VPC-FH1 and VPC-HD2000 both shoot 1080/60p video.

I don't know of any other cameras in the sub-$1000 category other than the five stated below that are capable of slow motion functionality.

Made a little cribsheet to compare them by, might be useful to others.

In the end after much researching I bought the Casio EX-F1. Got a good deal at £435 including shipping.