No news of any "unannounced" cams?
 

OK, we've got the message about the JVC and Panny and I'm proud for all of y'all that have got that kind of price range. But I've got to just drool over those two cams because I can't afford to pay $50k for a cam right now (you know, $7k for the cam and $43k for the retainer for a divorce lawyer). :<

So... that left me hoping for some "unannounced" cam like a Canon GL3 or a Sony HDX10 to come out at NAB this year.

Has anything like this been discussed at the Canon booth, the Sony booth, or the toll booth?

C'mon, somebody throw the dog a bone, cuz I can't afford to eat off the table. Thanx in advance for any responses, and old movie humor in the response will win you double GreenScreen stamps on this thread!

I hear ya on that. It sounds like there were only two new cameras announced this year. News has been real slow.

Canon probably won't announce anything. They just release something.

Aaron

All I can say about that is canon better do something astounding and quickly. It seems like there's a lot of folks on the verge of upgrading and jumping canon's ship. Myself included.

There is an unsubstantiated rumor about Sony preparing an answer to the HVX100.

You know it's bad for Canon when *I* consider buying something besides a Canon. (got 6 Canons in my office right now), and unless something completely new pops up before the HVX200, it looks like my next camera.

Really? I wonder what they could do to beat the Panny HVX200. I mean what codecs do they have, just DV and HDV don't they? OK, what does the Cinealta use?


Aaron

Well ,I jsut bought an XL2 this week, so uh, Canon's not losing money from me.

From what the man at the dealership said (not because I was buying the cam, hadn't told him what I wanted yet), Canon XL2's are selling faster than ever right now for some reason. Apparently he sells lik 8 or 9 a week.


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I could understand why. People have productions that they need to shoot like RIGHT NOW, and while these new cams are real sexy and all, they are still months away from release. Not only that, but they are also untested (especially that JVC...I wouldn't want to be the first person to buy that JVC without it being tested by others.) The chances of these new cams not having any initial bugs are slim.

Built in mini35 using EF lenses.

Absolutely true--if you need to shoot top notch SD now, the XL2 is still the camera to have. That's what I'll be shooting with until I do upgrade to a High Def camera.

I'm with you, though, Dylan. I have 3 Canon camcorders and the 20D I bought for my wife, so I guess I have some predilection for Canon. But I ain't gonna get left behind, either. (Hey, maybe our new DVinfo motto can be: "No videographer left behind.")

Despite previous predictions by some professionals who post here, I think Canon will have to go beyond a simple upgrade of the GL2 or XL2 to HDV -- and soon -- if they want to preserve their market share. They have to be aware that guys like us would jump ship for the huge advantages of a camera like the (promised) Panny HVX.

We shall see in due course. I sure hope they don't suddenly release The "Canon Gotta-Have-It" Cam the week after I take delivery of an HVX!

OK, sure that would be nice - but I was thinking of things they could do that were in the realms of reality ;)

Aaron

NAB has never been Canon Video's show. NAB belongs to Canon Broadcast (their professional video lens division). There is a pattern at work, and if you know the pattern of a given manufacturer's new product introductions from the past then that can help you to predict the future.

It's also true the Canon Video does not "announce" new products, they simply introduce them, usually within 30 days or so of an initial shipping date. I'm not saying this is a better practice than Panasonic or Sony or JVC; it's just different.

As for myself, I was a little surprised not to see at least a hint of a shoulder-mount version of the Sony FX1 / Z1, sort of DSR250 style, as I had thought it would be teased at NAB. But it wasn't.

So Chris, if you had to guess on when the next logical time for Canon to announce, using their pattern, when would you guess? July, Oct?

Hi Patrick,

Since I still occasionally do consulting work for Canon, it would be most uncool of me to hazard any guesses as to a possible announcement date. It's a no-win situation. If I'm right, everybody assumes that I've had insider information and have known all along, violating any trust the manufacturer may have placed in me. If I'm wrong, then people become angry because they based their purchase decisions on what I said, assuming that I've had insider information and have known all along. So there's no way I'm saying anything one way or the other. I'll leave it to you guys to speculate and predict, but please do that in our "Area 51" forum.

Hello everyone, by the way it was nice to meet Mr. Chris Hurd in person at the show. It was a great event, specially for those delicious vodka drinks given away after the Fox/FCP demonstration!


Regarding the new Panasonic there are still some unanswered questions, one of them being the ccd chip size.

I think if Canon releases a HD camera that records on a cheaper media (other than a p2 style card) than the price will defentelly beat the 10k Panny

Al

Okay, I'll take a stab at it. I'm guessing a GL3 will be the first Canon HDV release and it will be this late summer or fall. I doubt we'll see an XL3 until 2006. Just a guess...

The GL1 was introduced July 15, 1999.

GL2 was introduced June 25, 2002.

If they keep with the pattern, we should see a "GL3" (or replacement) this Summer.

As for an XL3 -- I doubt it, seriously.

The XL1 was introduced 10/1997.

The XL1s was introduced 7/2001.

The XL2 was introduced July 15, 2004.

If they stick with this pattern, we might expect to see an XL2s in 2007, and an XL3 in 2010, although that sounds absurd and I'm sure they'll re-tool it long before then.

I suspect that Canon's only real choice for the XL line is whether to release an HD version by this autumn, or let it fall prey to Darwinism. By then, there'll probably be such a glut of almost-new XL2's on the used market that they won't sell more than a handful of brand-new ones to a rapidly evaporating market.

I for one am hoping they come through. Despite some folks' complaints about the free-spinning lens rings etc., I value the flexibility and 40x combined zoom range that the 3x and 20x together give me. I can get in tight manually, or reach way out with OIS using a top-notch camera. But the age of miniDV, at least beyond the point-and-shoot level, is drawing to a close -- a lot of us have doubts about even HDV (Sidebar: I've asked out loud for quite some time whether it might be the "Digital 8" of HD, and been pooh-poohed...well, I'm gaining confidence I was right all along). Given what I've read here lately, I'd personally be strongly leaning toward a camera that shoots DVCProHD as my next toy. It is up to Canon to adapt to the emerging market or let the line perish.

I went to NAB and saw all the cool stuff (but somehow couldn't track down
Mr. Hurd). I am buying an XL2. I need a camera _now_ and there is nothing
else with the features I need that is as affordable.
The HD cams get my heart rate up, BUT
I don't expect to see the Panny or "studio" JVC until Christmas.

I've been wondering myself what Sony can do to combat the HVX200 and the HD100. Maybe Sony can come up with some sort of hybrid HDV/HDCAM camcorder. If the HVX200 is like a mini-Varicam, then why not come out with some sort of mini-CineAlta to combat it? I'm thinking a small pd170/z1 sized camera that offers 1080/60i in HDV on DV tapes(or Sony's special HDV tapes)and also offers 1080/60p/30p/24p on those small 30/40 min. HDCAM tapes. What do you think?? Never gonna happen??


Ozzy

I like that practice. All this hype with the HVX200, then only a mock up and later this year,,,is just kind of a let down. Why not be ready to ship the camera? If Canon comes out with a GL3 with 16:9 and HD it will go over big.
The HDPro and HDV debate isn't going to matter that much. There are just to many companies dumping money into HDV,,,it will be around and probably some day be as norm as VHS. It might not be as good as the Pannasonic HD, but most people wouldn't know the differnence anyway.

I assume Canon will toss something in the ring shortly, they must release new models faster than they did previously.

Sony are the kings of HD, they actually SELL those 950's to people...I don't see them lowering any "true" HD codecs down to the little people...that's why HDV was developed.

Panny is just going for it. Everyone editing with FCP will probably get an HVX200.

I don't see any reason a company like Sharp couldnt just toss a bomb in there with an HDV 1500 dollar cam soon.

Hi Bob,

I really hate to sound like a broken record, but if you guys would simply take a look at recent history, then you would not have been let down by the HVX mock-up at NAB. Nobody should have expected a working model at NAB and I'm surprised that some folks were "disappointed" by the fact that it was only a non-working mock-up that Panasonic was showing. If you know Panasonic's history, then it should have come as no surprise at all. This is simply a repeat performance of the DVX100 introduction from a couple of years ago. Panasonic is simply repeating the same marketing strategy as the did with the DVX. And it's a brilliant strategy, too, as they're able to create a tremendous amount of anticipation and industry buzz in doing so. Plus, they've probably convinced more than a few buyers to hold off on whatever camera purchasing decisions they were about to make, and commit to the HVX when it's actually ready to ship. Meanwhile there will be a couple of significant trade shows where Panasonic will be able to reveal video actually shot by the HVX, and eventually show a working, finalized version of the camera as it will be when it ships. That has been the pattern before with the DVX and it will be the same pattern with the HVX. It is the easiest thing to predict, so again, I'm surprised that some folks felt "let down" by the mock-up when, if they had studied their history, they would have known not to expect anything else. Hope that's clear enough.

Again it is a very different kind of marketing as opposed to Canon's model of not showing something until it's actually ready to ship. I'm not saying that one strategy is better than the other. There are obvious advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. What I am saying though is that these approaches are easily predictable if you take the time to study what has gone before. It's freshman-level History 101. Hope this helps,

By the way, for Alain, it was great to meet you at NAB and I wish we could have had a photo together... and Jacques, can't believe I missed you this time, sure hope to run into you at DV Expo East this summer? Let's plan for that, maybe we'll have to do a DV Info dinner that week in Manhattan somewhere.

Excellent. I'll see you in Manhattan. Last year was quite revealing. The only secret known to all at this point is the high price of cavorting around within a few blocks of the Lincoln tunnel. By then my upgrade options will likely expand along with my credit card balance.

See you at DVExpo.

I understand what your saying Chris, but when the hype is up and no one else has anything like the HVX my marketing plan would be to have the camera ready to ship. Maybe they just like to test the water first and make changes.

I ask someone from Canon about a GL3. I was told "there is no official announcement yet".....not a yes but not a no either.

Maybe Canon will release in the 3rd Quarter!