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-   -   Sony prototype cinema camera shown at NAB (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-video-industry-news/476636-sony-prototype-cinema-camera-shown-nab.html)

David C. Williams April 19th, 2010 12:38 AM

It will be interesting to see how Sony place this camera market wise, as well as function wise into their line up. With the F35 and 9000 being pretty much the same camera as far as final output, and Sony's known market segmentation, it's going to be fine line between what they allow it to do vs cost and stopping it encroaching into their high end sale too far. Then factor in the eventual competitors like the almost mythical Scarlet (the most recent date I've seen being Dec 2010 for the 2/3" version), so they also can't hobble it too badly against these.

The distinctive functions of the F35 and 9000 for digital cinema are 4:4:4 and S-Log recording. If they allow than in this camera, they may cost themselves money in lost high end sales. If they don't allow it, they may cost themselves sales against the new wave of budget 35mm sensor cameras like Scarlet with it faux RAW 4:4:4. I think Sony's attempts at fine grained market segmentation are going to be hard pressed to offer value in the future, they will be forced to rationalise their line up at some stage I think.

I'd speculate it will offer a high bit rate Mpeg4 10bit 4:2:2 native recording, with 4:4:4 3G HD-SDI output and no S-Log option. Sony have stated Mpeg4 is coming when the work flow bottlenecks smooth out, which is pretty much now with most of the major edit software and hardware supporting full res multi stream playback.


Brian Drysdale April 19th, 2010 01:05 AM

There's also a possibility that it could just use the same codec as the EX3. It really depends which market they want to place the camera if they use a variation of XDCAM HD 4:2:2, at this price point I can't see the point of 4:4:4, which really of use for high end VFX.

Tim Polster April 19th, 2010 08:20 AM

I think it is too early to tell where this type of camera will be placed or priced in the market. It is tough to know where Sony sees the market opportunity.

The vDSLR craze has really caught some attention, but this market is pretty tough to get a hold of. I have seen posts on other forums regarding the upcoming Panasonic AF-100 which will be priced in the low $5000s as being priced high compared to the vDLSRs. Even though it will have a lot of features most want in comparison. Competing on price only with the Canon Ti model is impossible. So I wouldn't blame Sony for shooting a little higher with the first model then releasing a lower priced model or something of the sort.

Heath McKnight April 19th, 2010 08:46 AM

That's my philosophy, too--use the camera that's best for you. I nearly bought a $15,000 camera in 2001 because it shot true 16 x 9 (but not 24p), because I thought it'd make me a better shooter.

I'm a better shooter because I learned from the best (Jon Fordham, Victor Milt, Douglas Spotted Eagle, and more), and used the tools at my disposal.


Brian Drysdale April 19th, 2010 09:35 AM

A specialised video camera is always addressing a smaller market than a stills camera with a basic video facility. The large production volume enables these cameras to be less expensive for video people. Adding more powerful video centred features that cause an increase in costs wouldn't go down well with a majority of people who want to shoot stills and perhaps a bit of home video.

There always has been higher cost cameras that had features that people wished they could have for less money.

Tim Polster April 19th, 2010 10:16 AM

Brian, I was speaking more to the fact that the "indie" crowd to generalize, might be a bit more on the budget side. And even though to me, $5,200 for the AF-100 is a fair price, it is still viewed by a lot (or many) of the target market to be high in comparison to the sub-$1,000 Ti etc...

Things are slippery when there is a $1,000 option out there. The expectations become lowered for pricepoints which would make a product intoduction very challenging imho.

Eric Lagerlof April 19th, 2010 12:00 PM

For me, having little work currently, the Canon would be a great way of supplementing my FX1, DOF control being one obvious advantage. BUT, if I had the strong client base I had had, (roughly a century ago), I would definitely be looking at the higher end cameras. Besides obvious issues like audio, the higher price could mean easier/more flexible use of the same camera for both controlled-scene or who-knows-how-this-event-will-unfold scenarios, more familiar ergonomics(possibly), going from camera to camera, easier viewfinders, etc. etc. For a business/facility that has to send camera people out to face unknown production situations a ?standard? video camera seems a better bet.

Jim Snow April 19th, 2010 12:08 PM

I believe the real significance of all of this is that large sensor camcorders are finally being competitively addressed by the primary manufacturers. It's too early to focus on any particular manufacturer or product. We will see what actually hits the market in due time. But it's great news that products in this class are finally in development by the primary manufacturers. Competitive forces should keep things moving now that the genie is of the bottle.

Erik Phairas April 19th, 2010 12:11 PM

I don't camera hop for just anything. The EX3 can out shoot me. I don't possess the skill to max out this camera. I know as I learn the EX will always have enough performance to do what I need. I am just keeping my eye open though. Sooner or later there will be that freak camera that finally comes out that has ungodly good low light ability and I want that camera. No use in trying logic on me. It is an obsession that I enjoy. :)

oh and I am not willing to sell an EX for a 5D or anything like that. I want a Video Camera not a DSLR.

Brian Drysdale April 19th, 2010 12:28 PM


Originally Posted by Tim Polster (Post 1516408)
Brian, I was speaking more to the fact that the "indie" crowd to generalize, might be a bit more on the budget side. .

I'd assume we're talking about the hobbyist, rather than the professional market.

Erik Phairas April 21st, 2010 08:46 PM

Starting to feel the excitement at all the possibilities this camera might have. Which probably means it will cost a load of money and won't be able to buy one. :)

Erik Phairas April 22nd, 2010 08:06 AM

Hey I have a question. If the F35 uses and I quote "1-chip Super 35 mm type Progressive CCD" and it is "Full Resolution 1920 X 1080 RGB" how does it get all the colors in full HD? Is it a bayer pattern chip or does it have a color wheel or something?

I ask because the whole reason the Red One does what it does is because it is a 4k bayer chip. That gives it enough photosites for each color.

Sony Product Detail Page - F35

Brian Drysdale April 22nd, 2010 10:22 AM

On page 1 info on the Panavision Genesis sensor, it use the same sensor as the F35.


It has the equal numbers of RGB pixels, unlike the Bayer, which has more green.

Bayer filter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Erik Phairas April 22nd, 2010 04:15 PM

OH so it's actually 1920x3 x 1080x3 on chip but combined to read only 1920x1080?. Wow that is the chip they MIGHT use in the new camera huh?

Thanks for the response, completely answered my question.

Mike Calla April 22nd, 2010 11:41 PM

Sorry, i don't need these new cameras anymore....
Screw these new cameras... fix the aliasing on the 7D (although i RARELY have problems) and I'll be a little happier than i am now, and I'm quite happy;

- My Marantz and Zoom R16 flash recorders eased my audio issues
- My light meter eased my exposure issues
- Plural eyes eased my sync issues
- A follow focus, (and very cheap rails) eased my focus issues
- A cheap Lilliput / & or a Dell hdmi computer monitor and blackmagic converters for splitting signals eased my monitoring issues
- Two 12V powerpacks eased my on-location power issues
- LED lights (small, light, use little power, have light plastic barn doors) and the 7D's sensitivity eased my lighting requirement issues
- A DIY slider eased my tracking issues
- A DIY shoulder mount & Glidecam2000 eased my hand-held/stability issues.

I can fit all this in (sans the Dell, tripods, stands & slider) an off-the-shelf-hard-shell-larger-than-a-carry-on suitcase. My tripod, mono-pod, four light-weight light stands, & boom pole are in another 60cm long soft case

I can easily fit these two cases in the back of taxi or believe or not, on my electric or gas scooter

I no longer have issues with my 7D ...

Sorry, i don't need these new cameras anymore....

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