Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Hear hear.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I think the ultimately irony, from my perspective, is that I bought the 7D so I could shoot some shallow DoF video. In the end, the camera turned me back into a photographer. And now I use the camera 99% of the time as a photographer. And as a photographer I never use "live view" for obvious reasons.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

On the two camcorders I've ever had die on me, it was the LCD that went first - and I take good care of my gear. I Would never use an NX5, XHA1s, HVX170 etc in any kind of harsh conditions like rain or dusty situations without some serious protection (and stress). These cameras are just not built to take the same punishment that the 1D cameras are.

It's not that the flip screens can't survive in a riot or a combat zone, it's just that they present a risk that can be eliminated. And anyway, who buys a camera that shoots 12fps and then shoots an NFL game using slow Live-View contrast-detect autofocus?

When it comes to professional sports and photojournalism, the gear cops a whole new level of abuse compared to what most videographers would dream of. Rain, cyclones, mud, fire; these professionals will expose their cameras to everything. I know surf photographers who're using the same 1d mkII they bought seven years ago. In that time they've exposed it to salt spray daily, put it in their checked baggage on hundreds of flights, travelled through deserts, jungles, snow, on mopeds, on boats, in the back of third-world-country pick-up trucks, dropped in on the sand, dropped it in the mud, survived the Indonesian tsunami (and documented the whole thing), camped for weeks in harsh conditions, etc, etc, etc and the camera is still kicking on. Take a look at the photographers on the sidelines of a football game to see the kind of punishment they dish out - they might have three different bodies hung around their neck, all banging together as they run around, and they'll routinely drop one of them onto the wet grass, and they'll do that for hours on end before the cameras get a Gatorade shower at the end of the match.

It's not that professionals like this don't value and care for their equipment - it's just that given the choice between their $7000 camera and a cover shot on National Geographic, they'd choose the cover shot every time. And they wouldn't be too happy if the camera died just before they got the shot, because the rotating LCD screen that they never use anyway let a little bit of moisture in.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Thanks for the explanations.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Same thing happened to me. I also hope the 5dIII has most or all of the new video capabilities.

Pat

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Is this the sole new product that is to be announced for Nov 3rd, or are other products still possibly pending?
I was hoping for a mirror-less camera to run head to head with the GH2!

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Haha... Not me Robert... my 5d clip counter has passed 10,000 once already and is now at 7,000 again. My shutter count for stills... 6,500... Since July 2009.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I only shoot with 1 Series bodies. I have been shooting with my 1D Mark II and 1D Mark IV cameras in pouring rain and understand the benefits of a 1 Series body as well as limitations. You use a camera according to its strength and usage for a particular environment. If you are a photojournalist covering NFL, then certainly opening the flip LCD switching on the Live view, manual focusing (as the AF in live view is not fast enough) and clicking is just not going to fly. So clearly this is not meant for NFL situations. However, that doesn't mean the feature is not important. How many NFL journalists shoot video using a 1 series body? Not many. Using that logic Canon should have dropped video from the 1D X.

The 1 Series is a professional body meant for professional applications for all photographic genres and each will push this camera differently. Finally it is upto Canon to decide which feature they can include. Till then it is wild speculation about the reason for dropping a feature, unless Canon has clarified it.

I was a bit surprised by your tone. When you say "..you have to think beyond what *you* want ..." that means half of the people can't express their views here? Communicating in forums like this where we don't have the benefit of watching the gestures of others, sentences like these can always be interpreted in a negative manner.

Anyway, I will share more thoughts when I get one for review.

Cheers,
Sabyasachi

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Based on a Canon survey I participated in recently they are working on a mirrorless camera. The questions had to do with importance of features and pricing.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I thibk the fact this has been announced now means it this has nothing to do with the Nov 3rd date. The most sensible speculation is that Nov 3rd is likely to do with something regarding digital cinema - not what is primarily a stills camera.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I see some spec sheets listing USB 2.0, why not 3.0 ??

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Perhaps because not all computers have USB 3.0

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I think if a USB3 device is connected to a USB2 computer (or the other way round) it will still work - but at the speed of the lowest device. There's nothing to lose by making something USB3 capable, but there will only be a gain when connected to another USB3 device.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

(Edited)

I couldn't find anything that specified which version of USB will be in the camera. Is there a link to official info on that?

It is correct that USB3 is backward compatible. I do hope they go with USB3. IMO, if they would go with USB2 it would be an unfortunate design choice for a top-of-the-line camera. I've become totally spoiled by being able to dump a card full of files from CF card to computer in just a matter of seconds using USB3, rather than many minutes. If you don't have a USB3 capable computer, then you'll just downgrade to USB2 speed. From the buyer point of view, no reason not to have the much faster industry standard interface on the camera.

BUT, since it has gigabit ethernet, I could certainly overlook the USB thing!

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

A flip-out LCD has never been a feature of the 1-series body. Therefore Canon has not "dropped a feature." They have chosen not to bring it over from their prosumer EOS 60D or their consumer Rebel T3i, just as they have not brought over, say, EF-S lens compatibility. There are perfectly valid reasons for these decisions. It is not "wild speculation" to explain why a certain feature has not been added to the 1-series.

Canon has indeed dropped some features from the EOS-1D X, such as SDHC / SDXC card compatibility and a few other things.However, a flip-out LCD has not been dropped since it was never there on the 1-series to begin with.

When a person makes a post here saying "feature X should be on camera Y," they need to be prepared for honest answers that might not have been what they wanted to see. My reply suggesting an alternative point of view to consider the bigger picture regarding feature sets on a certain product is just that -- a suggestion.

On this site it is a very firm policy to *always* assume the good faith and good intentions of your fellow members here. That's not a suggestion, it's a rule. Hope this helps,

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

One more comment about the flip-out LCD question. Just to get this issue settled and to put an end to any guessing or speculation, I spoke with Erik Allin of CUSA this morning and asked him if adding a flip-out LCD feature was ever under consideration for the EOS-1D X. He said thatthey had thought about it, but ultimately Canon did not have a practical way at this time to insure the weather-tight integrity of the 1D X at the LCD hinge points, nor were they confident about its durability in extreme environments, therefore the flip-out feature was purposefully not introduced to the 1D X. Which pretty much confirms what I had been saying all along.

Above all other feature sets including video, the 1-series bodies are first and foremost weather-tight and able to withstand ten inches of rain per hour. Canon refuses to compromise that primary 1-series feature. Hope this helps,

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

The 1DX is the perfect PJ DSLR. Actually, it's a Nikon D3s clone with a few more pixels, but that's fine for me. What I don't like is that it's €2,000 more than the D3s, I hope the street price will finally be close to the €4.5k mark.

As for video, this 1DX could have been THE game changer, if only had implemented a very simple thing.

Let's be honest, no DSLR will make a video/film camera ever: Video codecs are never good enough, no XLRs, no 48v, no good preamps, no tiltable TFT or EVFs, no SMPTE I/O, they require external audio recorder and somewhat laborious post sync, etc, etc.

But ALL of the above could have been solved with a very simple move: a clean 422 10bit HDMI out (preferably SDI due to its locking connector).

The 1DX with a clean video out would have been "disruptive technology". THE perfect PJ DSLR and THE perfect small FF film cam, all in one.


If only Canon was Apple. What a missed opportunity. Yeah, there's 3rd November with S35 videocam and all that, but still, a missed opportunity.


Hopefully Nikon understands this better with the upcoming D4. They've already set the trend in DSLR with the D3s, which Canon has finally cloned (dismissing his very own APS-H 1.3 crop and Megapixel race, and caring for high ISOs instead)

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I'm a fan if a lot of cameras, especially the old 4x5's. But I have to disagree about the D3S clone if for no other reason than an extra 6mp of space for cropping. I know there is a pixel peeper ananolgy but 12.1 in this day and age? 720 video, 5 minute limit. Not to mention we have not seen the continual increase in image quality and noise reduction. I am sure that the Nikon is excellent, but I would not consider them equal until we see what Canon has produced.

D3s
Product Highlights
12.1 Mp FX (36x23.9mm) CMOS Sensor
RAW/JPEGs & 720p HD Video @ 24fps
ISO Sensitivity Up To ISO 102,400
Built Tough, Fully Weathersealed
3" 920,000-Dot LCD with Live View
Buffers Up to 48 RAW or 130 large JPEGs
In-Camera RAW Processing
Compatible With Most Nikkor Optics
Dual CF Memory Card Slots
Up to 4200 Exposures per Battery Charge

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Well, to me and to many others, the 1Dx certifies that "Nikon was right", therefore my "D3s clone" wording.

With the 1D3 and 1D4 Canon was bleeding pros to Nikon with the D3/s. Why? Because Pro PJs found out they didn't want a strange crop that transformed all they focals, they didn't care for the MPx race but they did care very much about being able to shoot at high ISOs without any noise. To top it all, they wanted a simple to use but effective and fast AF.

ALL the above is what Canon has copied/assimilated.

Many years ago Canon redefined DSLRs and Nikon was totally lost with several dull cameras. Canon has been sleeping ever since (except for the surprising 5D2 movie-phenomenon), while Nikon truly got to work.

In the end, competition makes us the winners.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I disagree that the 1D X is a D3/s clone.

I agree that Nikon was winning the noise reduction and AF battles and that Canon improved the 1D X in these areas. I wrote long ago (regarding the 5D3) that the only certainties about the next generation cam is better NR and AF, since those are two photo-oriented features where Canon was behind. (Nine points for the 5D2? Really?)

I don't see it as a clone, copied, or assimilated. It's a classic horsepower war. When Intel makes a faster CPU, AMD needs to respond. For some time, point and shoots fought a megapixel war. Nikon raced ahead in the AF point war and Canon has had to respond.

Hopefully, the NR and AF features aren't a mere copy but raise the bar.

And hopefully, Nikon will take the video feature battle seriously and do some leapfrogging of their own. :)

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

No one who hasn't shot a 1D camera will ever get why it is a "pro" camera and nothing else in Canon's line up is. I miss mine... :(

On another note... 12fps means you could just shoot strings of stills and then double them to make clean 24fps and skip all this "video" nonsense...

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

LOL!

"What did that character just say?"

"I'm not sure, all I heard was 'clack clack clack clack clack' the whole time." ;)

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Nothing new hey? Maybe you will remember having seen this movie Dylan, I think it was posted here.

Between You and Me - dir. by Patryk Rebisz - YouTube

Shot on a Canon 20D. Perhaps the first DSLR movie ever, years before Vince Laforet's Reverie!

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Tim Burton's Corpse Bride was shot with a pile of Canon EOS-1Ds MARK II cameras (with Nikon lenses) and released in 2005 (shot in 2004, I presume). Also, edited on Final Cut Pro, fwiw. Years before "Reverie".

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

You are right Ryan, I stand corrected. But the example I linked was shot in real time, like a live action movie, using the continuous shooting mode of the 20D (5fps). This is not the same thing as stop motion animation.

I should have said first live action movie.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I know it. They beat me to the punch by a year. In 2006 I shot a film called Postcards on a 1DmkII at 8fps, so I'll claim the 2nd live action film shot on a DSLR. :) I don't have it online, but it ran through the festival circuit. At 8fps you start to forget it is still photos.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

If the quoted 350+ megabit bitrate is confirm, I don't think that external hdmi recording is that necessary. Most external recorders are compressing to proress HQ 220 mbit. Apart from the uncompressed recorder, which need ssd and an insane amount of memory (about 660 megabyte per hour) if the All-I is 10 bit and 4.2.2 then it makes external recorders a surplus.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

H264 is 8bit 420 so do not get your hopes up. Only the AVC-Intra by Panasonic and HDCAM SR by Sony are 422-444 10bit-12bit which use AVC encoding. H264 is just one encoding scheme that comes from AVC and the only H264 scheme is 8bit 420. Canon states that the 1DX uses H264 and will be easily imported and edited by current NLEs but none support HDCAM and only a few support AVC-Intra natively. Canon would have had to make a new AVC coding scheme in order to get 422 & 10bit and nothing stated anywhere hints at new AVC encoding by Canon.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I'll add one thing... IMHO no clean HDMI out was an oversight on this camera. Everything else is cherry.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Sounds like me! But....
? number of shutter movements divided by (12 x 60 x 60) = hours of video per shutter replacement, or camera(?) Please someone, the economics?

Not that impressed with the 1D X to upgrade my 7D.
 

Don't get me wrong, I think the specs are nice. But without MAJOR tech changes like RAW video or some other vastly improved codec (that split one isn't doing it for me), I don't see why people are talking about trading in their 7D's and 5D mkII's and adding money for this. I've recorded well past 12 minutes before on my 550d/T2i. So I'm not sold on it yet especially with that $6,000 price tag. To even the trained eye, we wont see that much of an improvement in video quality. Yes the full frame is nice, but I'm always skeptical of that angle. Not to be a Debbie Downer, but it seems like Canon is becoming like Apple by releasing new gear EVERY year that is just a tad bit of a step up from the previous and they act like the Messiah arrived.

__________________
James Davis - Proud owner of a 7D and 550D.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Look here H.264/MPEG-4 AVC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia H.264 has many specification starting from 8 bit 4.2.0 to 14 bit 4.4.4 so there are much more variation than you think. As Canon don't want to say what it is exactly, we can think that they have not decided on it yet. Perhaps it is time for people to start to lobby Canon for at least 4.2.2 and 10 bit.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I'm afraid I didn't make myself clear. Clean 10 bit 422 out means you can plug the DSLR to a PIX240 or similar device, then all the issues as a mediocre videocam are solved. You then would get professional preamps, XLR, 48v, audio monitoring, video loop and conections for an EVF and 17" with zebras, focus assist, waveforms... etc, along with the chance to record the video signal into whatever codec you might prefer.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

If you want any NLE to be able to edit the footage, it must be a currently used H264 scheme which means that it will NOT be anything new such as 10bit 422 which only exists with Panasonic and they aren't sharing their tech with anyone.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

NLE's can't update? It is ~5 month to release, we (atleast I) don't know if Canon have send file protocol to NLE's company already.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

After a fascinating couple of years with the 1DMKIV, including shooting three network scripted pilots with the camera, I find myself only mildly interested in reading about the capabilities of the 1D X. The uber-low light capacity is wild indeed, and I'm glad to hear the moire issue is improved (the must punishing artifact of this generation of cameras). However I'm incredibly ready to move on from the form factor of DSLR for film-style shooting with all of the compromise therein. The physical requirements of still shooting vs motion picture are so different, it's hard to imagine a camera that can nail both, so for me I'd rather keep them separate. The day will soon come where I sell my 1DMKIV and may be a slightly misty event, but I look forward to what is forthcoming and having the 1D join the A1, DVX and XL1 in the tail lights.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Well put, lead on Charles.

Cheers.

Re: Not that impressed with the 1D X to upgrade my 7D.
 

I would have to say that the major reasons to upgrade from the 7D or 5D Mk. II are for the photographic
improvements more than anything else, plus the big differences in the 1-series body compared to those
smaller cameras. The main step-ups of the 1-series body are the all-weather housing (it can withstand
ten inches of rain per hour), the battery, the larger optical viewfinder, the longer operational life, etc.

As far as the video is concerned, if all you're interested in is the HD video recording capability and you're
not otherwise interested in graduating to a 1-series body, then I would recommend that you wait for the
possibility of the video improvements to trickle down to the next iterations of the smaller 5D and 7D
cameras (and hopefully the next generations of the 60D and Rebel series).

The price-over-durability factor puts the $6800 price of the 1D X at less than twice the cost of the $1600
7D (in photographic terms, that is). If you divide the MSRP by the guaranteed shutter life, here's what
you get for the 7D vs. the 1D X:

7D cost to durability: $1,600 / 150,000 shutter actuations = just over one cent per click
1D X cost to durability: $6,800 / 400,000 shutter actuations = just under two cents per click

So that's probably a major consideration for some folks, the fact that they can move up to the flagship,
top-of-the-line camera for less than twice the overall cost.

There is no such thing as a 12-minute limit on any of these cameras including the Rebel. Instead there
is a 4GB clip size limit. Sometimes that can manifest itself as less than 12 minutes, and sometimes you
can record for a lot longer than 12 minutes, it all depends on what the camera is pointed at when
it's recording video.

It's important to realize that this full-frame 1-series camera is actually *less expensive* than the full-frame
1-series model it replaces, which was the 1Ds Mk. III. You have to compare like with like. Not everyone
can justify the upgrade to a 1-series camera... I know I can't. I just don't do enough photography, and
I'm certainly not a professional photographer anyway.

Of the two major improvements in the video quality, only one is a visual thing that you can see, which is a
greatly reduced incidence of moire compared to the 5D Mk. II. The other major improvement in video has to
do with the way it is encoded, where the difference is important to the ease of editing (by the addition of
intra-frame compression).

Sorry but I don't know what you mean by that...

I don't understand this remark at all. You have to realize that it's been *more than four years* since Canon
announced a full-frame Digital SLR in a 1-series body (the most recent one being the 1Ds Mk. III way back
in August of 2007).

They haven't done anything like this in more than four years. Most folks I know who shoot with 1-series
cameras would say that four years for a new full-frame camera makes the 1D X long overdue. And compared
to the 1Ds Mk. III that it's replacing, or even the 1D Mk. IV for that matter, the improvements in the 1D X are
far, far beyond being a "tad bit of a step up." Earlier this week when I talked to Erik Allin about the 1D X, he
said they had kept only two parts from the 1Ds Mk. III for the new camera: the body cap that covers the lens
mount, and the viewfinder housing. It's a completely different machine than the previous 1D / 1Ds models.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Seems like camera features and quality on many levels are in a state of great change and improvement. A good/bad time to buy? I'm waiting because with new cameras coming to market that are geared more for video I don't think I want to deal with dslr's. I think in the near future they will be losing their position and popularity. Granted their cheaper price may prove me wrong.

I want a video camera again, but I love the lens options dslr's brought to the table.

Someone said in another post, "this is a great time to be a film maker". They also said if we spent as much time on scripts as we do on cameras our films would improve greatly.

Monty

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

It can't. The 1DX can read two vertical pixels simultaneously. A non 1 series won't have two processors to do that function.

Canon has stated that this camera will have the best video of their DSLRs. But this is the end of DSLR purchased for just video, so it doesn't matter. The strange time of shooting commercial high def with a DSLR is coming to an end in the next few weeks. Will make good future stories for the grandkids.