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-   -   Metabones Speed Booster (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-video-industry-news/513479-metabones-speed-booster.html)

Andy Wilkinson January 14th, 2013 06:56 AM

Metabones Speed Booster
 
Note from Admin: See the full press release, photos at http://www.dvinfo.net/news/metabones...d-booster.html

I don't think I have seen this referred to yet on DVInfo (apologies if it has).

http://www.metabones.com/info/105-in...-speed-booster

Still at prototype stage. Sounds revolutionary, especially for FS100/700 etc. owners! (and BMC and GH2/3 owners when the M43 version becomes available).


Jim Giberti January 14th, 2013 12:12 PM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
I was reading about it recently, It almost sounds magical Andy.

But having just picked up a pair of GH3s to go with our Canon's it could be just great.
Using all my favorite L glass at actual focal lengths AND increased f/stop - seriously if ti works it's a silly good idea.

I'm picturing my 24-105mm f/2.8 on the GH3 and it looks good.

Andy Wilkinson January 14th, 2013 12:24 PM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
The physics works - I think it was covered by Kodak patents from what I've read (not sure if they are still valid or now expired...). The principle is also sometimes used in astronomical refraction telescopes/eye-pieces (funnily enough I bought one that uses this effect only this morning!)

Think of it as a 35mm equivalent full frame imaging circle refracted to now cover a much smaller circle (s35), hence the extra intensity/concentration of light and change in field of view (lenses appear to become wider as well as faster).

It's really down to the quality of the lens Metabones have used in the Speed Booster Adapter. Initial indications appear promising - but it is early days.

So, when this gets going people with NEX mount (and probably Micro 4/3 mounts next) will be laughing/a whole new world has opened up. Real flexibility. Wider and faster glass suddenly becomes abundant (and all they have to do is buy this adapter).

But for those of us with Canon EF mount cameras....like me and my C100 ....well, no benefit/change for us - but at least we've got some good EF glass which might come in handy....

Could be a good shake up of the market dynamics regarding full frame versus s35 (and other "crop factors" like M43) this one!

Jack Zhang January 14th, 2013 02:07 PM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
If Full Frame can be optically squeezed down to M4/3rds with the same principle, there is technically no crop factor limitation. If the combined price of the adapter and a set of good Nikon or Canon glass is less than a Voigtlander, I'll take one plus a GH3 in a heartbeat.

Lee Mullen January 15th, 2013 05:53 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
This sounds an exciting concept. I love the idea in principle you can make FF lenses like the 25-105mm work almost FF with a smaller sensor like the NEX.

Are there plans for a M4/3 version? I really hope so!! I have emailed Metabones several times but get no response!

Andy Wilkinson January 15th, 2013 05:56 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Yes, apparently there are plans for a M4/3 version, or so I have read on various blogs of people who have tried using the prototype. This is also specifically listed in the Metabones announcement that I linked to above as well.

The thing that interests me is that concentrating a full frame Canon EF lens image circle onto an even smaller sensor (than the test seen above with a NEX s35 camera) should make the EF lens used behave even faster than the approx 1 stop improvement seen so far.

Really good news for M4/3 :-)

This changes everything!

Edit: Just read elsewhere on the web that someone who ordered this new EF to Sony E mount Speed Boost Adapter has had notification that its being shipped - already!

Jim Giberti January 15th, 2013 11:25 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
It could certainly make a big difference for us.
Canon cameras and Canon lenses but with no 60p we just acquired a pair of GH3s.

I got them with a 20mm Lumix and a 45mm Zuiko and was just about to get the 12-35mm and 35-70mm 2.8s
It would be pretty nice for my 24-105mm f/4 to work as a 35-150mm f/2.8
My 50mm 1.2 becomes a 70mm .90...my 85mm L becomes a 120mm F/1
All of my Canon glass is very sharp and contrasty to begin with...there's some real potential here.
Really interested in seeing these at near full frame with the kind of resolution that the GH3 produces.

Chris Barcellos January 15th, 2013 06:56 PM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Quite interesting too for us VG20/VG30 users. I sure would like to hear about anyone who has used this with the VG series.

Jack Zhang January 15th, 2013 10:38 PM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Anxiously awaiting the price for the Micro 4/3rds version. ~$600 for the E-mount version. I'd reckon that the concentration lens needs to be more powerful for the Micro 4/3rds version, so we'll see how that would affect the price.

Jeremy Dallek January 16th, 2013 02:33 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Giberti (Post 1773336)
It could certainly make a big difference for us.
Canon cameras and Canon lenses but with no 60p we just acquired a pair of GH3s.

I got them with a 20mm Lumix and a 45mm Zuiko and was just about to get the 12-35mm and 35-70mm 2.8s
It would be pretty nice for my 24-105mm f/4 to work as a 35-150mm f/2.8
My 50mm 1.2 becomes a 70mm .90...my 85mm L becomes a 120mm F/1
All of my Canon glass is very sharp and contrasty to begin with...there's some real potential here.
Really interested in seeing these at near full frame with the kind of resolution that the GH3 produces.

Your focal length calculations are incorrect, it would make your lenses effectively wider, your 50mm 1.2 would be a 35mm .90 etc.

I was really hoping that the Micro 4/3 version would be a .5x instead of .7x, but I think they are keeping it .7x so you can use FX and DX glass and still cover the sensor.

Chris Hurd January 16th, 2013 08:11 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Link to press release added to 1st post. That link is Metabones and Caldwell Photographic Introduce Speed Booster at DV Info Net

Tony Davies-Patrick January 16th, 2013 10:25 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
This is very interesting. I've been looking at buying the Panasonic 7-14mm for underwater photography and filming to get wider framing on my 4/3 body, but the Speed Booster would turn my 14-45mm IOS into a decent wider angle with benefit of faster f/stop (although I do already use full-frame ultra-wide lenses with my full-frame Canon bodies).
The main questions would be if it maintained image quality, image stabilizer, zoom speed and handling of the original lens. Judging by the hype, it seems that AF speed is slowed down. I'll have to see further tests first before I buy one.

I just realised my mistake...the Metabones would of course not turn any 4/3 lens into a faster/wider optic. Each lens used with the booster needs to be designed for a larger sensor than the sensor inside the camera body. Therefore it would need to be my full frame Canon and Nikon lenses used with the Metabones Speed Booster on the Panasonic GF or GH bodies.

David Heath January 16th, 2013 11:04 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Wilkinson (Post 1773290)
The thing that interests me is that concentrating a full frame Canon EF lens image circle onto an even smaller sensor (than the test seen above with a NEX s35 camera) should make the EF lens used behave even faster than the approx 1 stop improvement seen so far.

Really good news for M4/3 :-)

I suspect very strongly that there are practical limits to the amount of concentration that can be done - and they may well tie in to about 1 stop equivalent on the basis of what has so far been confirmed. Practically, that's likely to mean that although 4/3 format will benefit, it's likely to be proportionally less of a benefit than s35 - so good news for 4/3, even better for s35.

One bit of theory that seems to be being overlooked is that for a given sensor technology, sensitivity is directly proportional to sensor area - double the area and you double the native sensitivity. But that only translates to better low light performance if lenses with the same f stop are used in each case, and often lenses for bigger format cameras don't have as fast a maximum aperture.

What this means is that for a given lens, depth of field and sensitivity will be identical (assuming all else equal) for full frame without the adaptor, or s35 with. *IF* an adaptor was feasible for 4/3 to take full advantage of the lens power (so a 2 stop advantage/focal length halving) then there would likewise be no difference when used on 4/3 with such an adaptor. Practically, that's unlikely, expect 4/3 to still have a stop disadvantage to s35.

As said before - it is good news for 4/3 users, but even better for s35.

Randy Johnson January 16th, 2013 11:54 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
I have a couple questions mainly because I am looking at the new Sony camera VEX-50. 1. Can you zoom with the attachment? 2. what am I looking at in the video? Were they trying to show quality?brightness? or cropping? All I got from it was I now would like a drink.

Tony Davies-Patrick January 16th, 2013 02:33 PM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
I've just read the report by James Miller on Philip Bloom's site. James seems to think that not only is light intensity enhanced through the lens (to provide that lift in f/stop speed), but the actual image quality is enhanced too! That doesn't quite ring true in my head...but James' early tests seem to indicate that it is. All I can say at the moment is...Wow!

That will make me look at my prized L lenses and Nikkors in a brand new light...and even my Sigma lenses...Such as my 120-300mm f/2.8 OS lens + Canon 2 X converter.

I'm already drooling over my 120-300mm f/2 and 240-600mm f/4 zoom lenses on the GX1 and GH3, both with image stabiliser!

Lee Mullen January 16th, 2013 06:27 PM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Does the booster allow zoom thru? Does it increase f stops on non fixed zoom lens like the Canon 18-55mm? Can EF-S lenses even work with it? What about using Nikon or Pentax glass with an adapter to fit on the booster?

Jack Zhang January 17th, 2013 04:12 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
EF-S lenses will not work on this adapter according to the press release.

I'm really hoping for the .5x magnification for MFT, even if it may involve 2 lens elements. Would that work? 2 lens elements to get it down to .5x?

Brian Drysdale January 17th, 2013 11:17 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Wilkinson (Post 1773174)
The physics works - I think it was covered by Kodak patents from what I've read (not sure if they are still valid or now expired...). The principle is also sometimes used in astronomical refraction telescopes/eye-pieces (funnily enough I bought one that uses this effect only this morning!)

Cooke did a similar thing when converting a 35mm Zoom lens the Cooke Varopanchro, 20-60mm, T3.1 into the 16mm Cooke Varopanchro (CVP) 10-30mm, T1.6.

David Heath January 17th, 2013 07:50 PM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Davies-Patrick (Post 1773571)
I've just read the report by James Miller on Philip Bloom's site. James seems to think that not only is light intensity enhanced through the lens (to provide that lift in f/stop speed), but the actual image quality is enhanced too! That doesn't quite ring true in my head...but James' early tests seem to indicate that it is. All I can say at the moment is...Wow!

I suspect that by "actual image quality is enhanced too" they mean "relative to using it in cropped mode".

Look at it this way. If it was able to resolve 4000 lines across the horizontal in full frame mode, that means it will resolve about 2850 across the width of the smaller s35 frame, or say about 2000 across the width of the 4/3 frame.

By concentrating the image, there exists the possibility of getting the entire 4000 lines across the smaller frame.

I do think it's an impressive idea, but as a word of caution then let's wait and see what practical trials have to say about things like use with zooms, auto-focus, etc. It may well do what it says on the tin with straightforward use of a simple prime ff lens - but there may be drawbacks in other ways.

Jack - sorry, but whilst a 0.5x version for 4/3 may be feasible in theory, I doubt it's viable in practice, not without a severe hit in quality. It's good news for 4/3 - but don't think anyone can now expect to get s35 performance out of a 4/3 camera.

Jack Zhang January 17th, 2013 11:09 PM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Alright, so this benefits S35 more than MFT. Is it practical to make a PL mount to E-mount or F3 mount so that full frame coverage from Cine lenses translates to S35?

Gabe Strong January 18th, 2013 04:09 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Jack,

As I understand it cine lenses already are S35 and not full frame.

Brian Drysdale January 18th, 2013 05:18 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
There are some cine lenses that cover full frame, but they seem to be cine version of still lenses, for example the Compact Primes,

John Richard January 18th, 2013 09:38 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Could there be any concern that by "concentrating" the light onto the sensor that there could be a heating or other sensor damage potential? Sort of like a magnifying glass? or is that just a negligible effect?

Tony Davies-Patrick January 18th, 2013 09:51 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
David, that might apply to stills images where the full frame bodies tend to provide a better photo quality than cameras with a smaller sensor, but when most of the top-tier full-frame and crop-frame DSLR cameras are compared in video mode they barely differ from each other.

In reality, it is more important that the video quality is not degraded and remains essentially the same when either an original 4/3 Panasonic/Olympus lens, or full-frame Canon /Nikkor/Pentax/Contax lens + Speed-Booster, are bayoneted to a GH3 body (or any crop sensor body).

The vital aspects to consider are that it works and that the vast majority of full-frame lenses available suddenly become faster wide-aperture lenses. It also avoids the normal added negatives of increased size, weight and considerable leap in costs.

This opens up a whole new world for the DSLR & Mirror-less camera lens systems.

Phillip Palacios January 18th, 2013 10:36 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Just ordered, This should be great for lightweight travel, take both the regular adapter and this FF one and get all kinds of range with fewer lenses.
Supposedly ships the 25th.

David Heath January 18th, 2013 12:02 PM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Davies-Patrick (Post 1773945)
David, that might apply to stills images where the full frame bodies tend to provide a better photo quality than cameras with a smaller sensor, but when most of the top-tier full-frame and crop-frame DSLR cameras are compared in video mode they barely differ from each other.

I think you may be misunderstanding what I'm saying. The point about a (hypothetical) lens giving 4000 lines in full frame, but less in cropped (without adapter), but back to 4000 with adaptor was to answer your original point about "That doesn't quite ring true in my head...but James' early tests seem to indicate that it is." To try to show a theoretical reason why it is indeed possibe!

But "quality" when about lenses is not only about resolution - there's geometric distortion, chromatic aberration, flare and other issues. They are the sort of things which may mean it is difficult if not impossible to viably make a 0.5x version, whilst 0.7x is realistic. That's why I feel the real winners here are such as FS100/700 owners using ff lenses and adaptors. Yes, it is only likely to benefit 4/3 camera users, just not to the same extent, and not (I believe) to the extent that some are hoping for.
Quote:

The vital aspects to consider are that it works and that the vast majority of full-frame lenses available suddenly become faster wide-aperture lenses. It also avoids the normal added negatives of increased size, weight and considerable leap in costs.

This opens up a whole new world for the DSLR & Mirror-less camera lens systems.
But this is what remains to be seen. Yes, it may work with a single prime lens, but what about zoom lenses, autofocus etc? It's early days.

T.G. Lawrence January 18th, 2013 05:13 PM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
I have to say I really like the idea of having two Metabones adapters and having in a sense, two sets of glass for S35 - crop and reduction/speed boost. I welcome more lensing options at a minimal cost or the potential of leaving a few lenses out of my bag.

Looking forward to seeing and hearing more hands-on reviews.

Nigel Barker January 19th, 2013 04:45 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony Davies-Patrick (Post 1773571)
I've just read the report by James Miller on Philip Bloom's site. James seems to think that not only is light intensity enhanced through the lens (to provide that lift in f/stop speed), but the actual image quality is enhanced too! That doesn't quite ring true in my head...but James' early tests seem to indicate that it is. All I can say at the moment is...Wow!

James' early tests claimed that removing the OLPF of the 5D3 improved image quality so I would look very carefully at his testing methods & results before uncritically accepting his claims.

Lee Mullen January 19th, 2013 07:07 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe Strong (Post 1773890)
Jack,

As I understand it cine lenses already are S35 and not full frame.

Canon's new cine primes and zooms are FF/4K.

Phillip Palacios January 19th, 2013 08:45 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Heath (Post 1773975)
Yes, it may work with a single prime lens, but what about zoom lenses, autofocus etc? It's early days.

Their site says "All EF lenses," and suggests how to register "3rd party" zooms. So it is supposed to work, how well? I'll see once I get mine. I shoot a lot of outdoor, so i'm interested in how much ghosting and flare this introduces.

Tony Davies-Patrick January 19th, 2013 05:44 PM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
I look forward to reading your opinions after trying it out, Phillip.

Lee Mullen January 20th, 2013 12:00 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Please share a video about it Philip when it does arrives. thanks

Phillip Palacios January 21st, 2013 10:14 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
I'm not the "put my face all over the internet and pontificate reviewer" type of guy, but I'll do my best to give you an idea of it's capabilities.
p

Steven Digges January 25th, 2013 11:15 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
I just made an extensive post in the Sony EA50 sub forum about the MetaBones EF Mark II adapter. It is very similar to the speed booster in firmware. If you are interested in the speed booster you might want to check it out. It is basically the speed booster without the glass.

Steve

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-nex...-not-good.html

Phillip Palacios January 25th, 2013 01:26 PM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
My thoughts. I'm not so negative on it as Steven is, for me it seems to work well enough. Here is my post on it:

Optical Magic - Palacios Pictures Blog

I should add that it is advertised to work with my camera, and I haven't had it out in the wild yet.

Tony Davies-Patrick January 27th, 2013 02:35 PM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Thank you Philip for the link to your Blog; and very interesting. I think Steven has a faulty adapter.

Steven Digges January 27th, 2013 05:35 PM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Phillip & Tony,

I am hoping it is defective too. I have not had a reply from MetaBones yet. I am not trying to be negative. If it turns out to be the date my lenses were made I just want everyone to know that is one of the limitations as I willingly took a "gamble". If I can get that Canon glass into service on my EA50 I will be thrilled. I'm glad it is working out for you Tony and hope it works for everyone else.

Steven

Ben Denham January 27th, 2013 11:57 PM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
There's some good testing and analysis of the adaptor here-

LensRentals.com - Metabones Magic?

Tony Davies-Patrick January 28th, 2013 06:31 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
The tests by Roger at LensRentals were well worth reading.

I'm looking forward to seeing the 4/3 adapter when it is released (due in March).

Phillip Palacios February 1st, 2013 10:20 AM

Re: Metabones Speed Booster
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben Denham (Post 1775690)
There's some good testing and analysis of the adaptor here-

LensRentals.com - Metabones Magic?

He's the guy with the time (and gear) to do the tests. Good to know, thanks!


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