Audio for a documentary -- wireless microphones?
 

I'm about to make a documentary about two people. Although I hate the word 'reality show' yet I wouldn't mind that feel to it as I follow them around. There will also be a few interviews as well.

I'm certain that I'll run into many snags on the way, but my biggest concern is the audio. I wonder what people here think would be the best way to mic them. Using the XL2's onboard mic won't cut it, and using a boom gaffer might be too much a "production"... so I was thinking that perhaps it's possible to use two wireless clip microphones and feed them into the XL2... no?

Any help appreciated.

-- peer

Peer,

I have Sony wireless systems and they work great! The lavs pick-up very well and they don't pick-up as much extraneous noise as some mics. Wireless lavs are much less intrusive than trying to follow someone with a boom outfit.

Mike

Mike, what Sony model is this? Does it have two wireless inputs, and XLR connectors?

-- peer

Peer,

Here is the link to the ones I have. I have 4 sets. Single inputs, mini out and I use a XLR adapter that is about 10 inches long. Work great!

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Diversity.html

Mike

Peer,

To give you another option, I have two sets of the Sennheiser G2 100 wireless mics. They work great as well...batteries last a long time and never had any interference. Just be sure to find the system with a different mic than the ME2. It's not a good mic. I can't remember which mic mine came with...but it's a better lav mic than the ME2.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...00_Series.html

I have a Sennheiser G2 system too, but actually prefer the Sony. I very much dislike that Sennheiser doesn't let you use other's mics. My four other lavs will not work on the Sennheiser system. They changed the jack length slightly, so they don't work. What's with that anyway?

Good luck-----Mike

Jonathan -- as always, many thanks. However, I wonder how much better your $1400 Sennheiser setup works compared to, for example, this $325 solution: http://tinyurl.com/52nlxp

Anyone tried the Azden WR-22 or perhaps the Shure PG188/PG185..?

-- peer

Peer,

Obviously you are just starting your journey into the audio world. :) You might want to read a bunch of posts in our audio forum before you continue with the search.

VHF systems are not for any real pro use. They are much more susceptible to interference and not use by most professionals.

My suggestion would be to at least stick with UHF, unless of course you shoot only out in the country side, away from all civilization. And, are real close to your subject.

Check out the "Now Hear This" forum.

Mike

Well, as for wireless, you are right -- I don't know anything. As for the "audio world", that's what I do for living, (and have done so for many years ;^)

-- peer

Peer,

Good, then you will understand what you are about to read and gives you a big leg up on me! Diversity and all!

Mike

Hi Peer,

We use the Audio Technica ATWu-101 wireless system (one transmitter & one receiver only), which is hooked up on CH1. If there are two people talking, then we'd mount our Audio Tech AT897 shotgun mic, and hook that on CH2. We rarely do more than one talking head at a time, so we don't need more than one wireless system.

But I could see how difficult my setup would be if my subjects are running around doing alot of business. So two systems should be better :)

Best,

Yeah, I shopped around and got mine for $400 each (without the stick mic cube). Looks like the receiver for that Azden you posted a link to doesn't fit too well onto a camera...or very portable.

Mike: Didn't get a chance to try the Sony before I made the purchase. Coming from a TV news background I wanted to go with Lectrosonic wireless but that was WAY outta my price range. I had no idea you couldn't use other mics with the Sennheiser. I was happy with the one that came with the system. Then again, I'm more of a video guy rather than an audio guy...

I agree with Mike that you want to avoid VHF, BTW.

Jonathan

Well, I just checked and the mini jack lengths are the same, unlike what someone had told me. But, Sony lavs don't work the the Seny and the Seny lavs don't work in the Sony. It may be that they are wired the opposite. Just know that a couple of times I grabbed a Sony to use in the Seny and I thought the unit was no good. It was just the mic though. I do like the Sony lavs better though. Just my opinion, which is not worth much.

I do have the cube for my Seny too and I do use it with a shotgun.

Mike

I am using the seny G2 evolution systems and love them, however I have never used the Sony wireless lavs so I can't really comment on those. The ME2 is not as bad as everyone makes it out to be, you just have to be a little more careful with the mic and make sure that you place it in a good position to get clean audio. I am planning on upgrading to better mics and someone had posted a good mic that is compatible and now I can't remember what mic it was.... oops! Think it was actually made by Lectrosonics? Anyway, love the Senys!

my 2 cents,
Ryan

Hey guys, the more opinions the better! Diversity is the spice of life. Like I said, I haven't had a chance to play with the Sonys, so I can't comment on them either.

ANYWAY, Ryan: the ME2 is the mic that looks like a little ball, right? If so, that one came with a clip that was horrible! It attached to the wire instead of the mic itself (cuz it was just a round ball and you can't use other lapel clips with it cuz there's no where for the clip to hold the mic) and the way it was designed, it kept turning so that it wouldn't stay straight. Tgen the "windscreen" was also bad because the mic's polar pattern allowed it to take in audio from the bottom, which wasn't protected by the windscreen so a lot of wind came through and I just couldn't get away from it.

The mic I have now doesn't have that problem...wish I knew which model it was.

Oh well.

Jonathan

Hey Jonathan,

I think you're thinking of the ME4. I can definitely see how the ME4 would be a pain in the butt to work with being that it is an ugly big ball! The ME2 has a clip that attaches to the mic itself and it looks like a standard lav. I have never had a problem with wind on the ME2, then again I haven't used it outdoors a whole lot. One thing about the ME2 that I do love is that even though it is omnidirectional, it still only picks up the voice of my subject. It does a great job of blocking unwanted room sounds when adjusted properly.

Ryan

Since I'm "stuck" with a low budget for this documentary, but yet need a dual channel setup, I wonder if anyone is familiar with the Azden 200ULT UHF: http://tinyurl.com/63mnac that sells for $560 on Amazon, or perhaps any other humanely priced 2-channel UHF..?

-- peer

Ryan...

You're right...I was thinking of the ME4. See it here:
http://www.levenly.com/photo/standard/me4.jpg

I don't have the ME2 either...The one I have is about 1 1/2 cm long and 1/2 cm diameter and looks like a small cylinder with a flat top...like a regular lav mic. I can see where the ME2 is better than the ME4, though.

Thanks for straightening me out.

Hey Jonathan,

The lav you describe sounds exactly like the ones that I have. It's funny though, I did a search on the Sennheiser website for ME2 and came up with this ME2 mic:
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/media/h.../ME2_hires.jpg

However, I found the kits that I have that supposedly include the ME2 and it shows the mic that I have, and the one that you describe:
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/media/h...G-G2_hires.jpg

It's odd! The ME2 that I have matches the description of what you have to a "T" and it has a little wire-mesh wind screen on the top of it.

Weird!

lavaliere microphones
 

Yes, while the ME2 is small, it just doesn't have much frequency response: see TEST #2:

http://www.bridgehands.com/audio

BTW, it seems that this thread should be in the AUDIO forum:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=53


Good luck, Michael

BHphoto sells wireless kits with an option for deluxe kits which they say include "broadcast-quality lavalier mics that are significantly better than the standard mics included with the wireless system" BH include the Voice Technologies VT500 Lavaliers with their deluxe sennheiser kits, example of such kit below.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=421965&is=REG

OK, I'm an idiot...I have the same ME2 you have...just without the wire-mesh windscreen. It's easier to see with the enlarged picture from your link. From the smaller pics it just looked like the windscreen was the mic (like the ME4). Doh!

Jonathan

Jonathan,

You're not an idiot, that's not at all what I was trying to imply! I think that your were looking at a different picture of the Sennheiser ME2. In some pictures they show a mic similar to the ME4, while in others they show the ones that we have. It appears as if Sennheiser has two completely different versions of the ME2.

Bottom line is that I love the ones that we have.

Ryan

The first basic question to ask is: what will these two people be doing while I am trying to shoot them and where will they be doing it? This will answer a large part of your question.

Will they be in very noisy environments? Even with a body mic, you can get a lot of the ambient sound depending on the environment and the mic.

Will they be wearing lots of clothes? Clothing noise is another potential source of distracting sound.

Will they be wearing few clothes? Is it important that the mic not be seen? It can be hard to hide a body mic on someone wearing t-shirt and shorts.

Will these circumstances change over the course of production? How will they affect audio continuity?

Etc.

It's answers to these kinds of questions that should drive your mic choices.

Those two people are professional billiards players, so I plan to do most of the shooting while they are playing, including the "interviews". Again, I wonder if anyone would know if the Azden 200ULT UHF (http://tinyurl.com/63mnac) are up to snuff for such a job?

-- peer

So, Peer, tell us... What did you wind up with?

Is the doc finished?

Didnt wanna start a new thread
 

a question: I own a G2 100 sen lav and a NTG 3 for a doc I am going to do soon. should I invest in a second pair or will the boommic be sufficant if another person would mix in? ...