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-   -   Optimizing stand alone DVD recorders (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/dvd-authoring/25738-optimizing-stand-alone-dvd-recorders.html)

Alessandro Machi May 9th, 2004 04:42 AM

Optimizing stand alone DVD recorders
 
I had two DVD copies made directly from a betacam sp master. According to the client, one copy had picture skips and jumps in it, the other one was pretty good except the sound dropped out in one spot.

What does the forum recommend for straight across DVD recording from existing edit master tapes?

Rob Lohman May 11th, 2004 09:43 AM

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking. And by the lack of
responses I've got the feeling more people don't understand.

Are you wanting to transfer the footage to MPEG2 (DVD) *BEFORE*
editing it? If so, don't! MPEG2 is a terrible format to capture in.
It's far better suited as an output medium.

Usually such tapes are converted to something your computer
can easily edit like DV or MJPEG. Then you can edit around the
problem areas if such exist.

Then the final edit can be outputted to DVD for airing or buying
by the public etc. Some stations can also air MiniDV tape or
transfer it to betacam.

Alessandro Machi May 11th, 2004 11:11 AM

I still keep quite busy with tape to tape editing.
Live event, 2 camera projects edit quite nicely via tape to tape. No load in time, just set up and go.

When I finish, I have a BetaCam SP edit master. I'd like to be able to make dubs directly to DVD from the BetaCam SP edit master.

I'm interested in knowing how to ensure that the DVD copy from the Betacam SP edit master would be an actual clone with no drop-outs.

Are the standalone DVD recorders that take an analogue signal as reliable as when one burns a DVD from a digital source?

Rob Lohman May 11th, 2004 11:30 AM

To the best of my knowledge they are. I'm not sure how compatible
the recording are when playing back on a normal DVD player
though. Any computer DVD player should be able to read the
files I think.

I'm sorry. I don't have much experience with direct to DVD
recording so can't offer much more then what I've already told.

Let's hope some people with some more experience will drop in.

Jeff Donald May 11th, 2004 12:04 PM

My experience is that standalone DVD recorders are more suited for amateur and consumer users. I've not used a standalone recorder, so I can't comment on how adjustable they are. However, all the standalone copies I've seen usually have errors similar to the ones you encountered. these could be the result of user errors or equipment limitations.

Alessandro Machi May 11th, 2004 12:40 PM

I was afraid of that.

I guess "real" DVD copies require much more operator involvement.

So what actually replaces VHS when one wants to make a copy of an existing master?

Jeff Donald May 11th, 2004 01:58 PM

DVD's are replacing VHS tapes in many (most) applications. However, they are both consumer formats have have limitations based on the needs of consumers. I can't speak as an expert on the subject of standalone DVd recorders. You will need to do some research on the existing models to see if any meet your needs for creating DVD from Beta SP format masters. The analog medium will force limitations that may not be solved by consumer based equipment.

It may be time for you to investigate the various DVD authoring programs that exist. If your clients require pristine DVD quality, standalone recorders will not deliver it, based on my limited experience.

Alessandro Machi May 11th, 2004 04:34 PM

<<<-- You will need to do some research on the existing models to see if any meet your needs for creating DVD from Beta SP format masters. The analog medium will force limitations that may not be solved by consumer based equipment.
-->>>

That is a confusing statement. There is nothing limiting about a BetaCam SP format that I can find. However, the DVD stand alone decks are not as reliable as a standard VHS deck.

Put it another way, If I want to record off of television, will a DVD recorder record the image as reliabley as a vhs recorder will?

Maybe it's time for specificity when it comes to DVD creation. DVD-A means it was authored by someone, DVD-C means the DVD was just copied from an existing master directly to a DVD.

Jeff Donald May 11th, 2004 04:44 PM

In my experience, no, DVD recorders show artifacts that most viewers find disconcerting. While VHS tapes show lower resolution and dropouts, viewers are willing to accept those limitations.

Dan Euritt May 11th, 2004 10:23 PM

imho, a *good* dvd recorder will be far superior to any vhs recorder.

not only will you get multiple filtering options on the input signal, you'll have all the access control that comes with dvd: ff, slo mo, etc.

i have made some dvd-r's with that sony deck that were compatible with everything i put 'em in, including the old 1999 apex... and the two-hour mode with high-motion dv source material gave really good quality... but i don't have a clue how the latest cheapie decks work.

Alessandro Machi May 12th, 2004 01:15 AM

VHS does offer ff and slo mo options also. Frankly I find my panasonic DVD remote control quite unwieldly and in many instances slower to get nearby points then VHS.

Any more opinions on DVD stand alone recorders? Do you find the quality and reliability to be better than VHS?

Arnaldo Paixao May 19th, 2004 03:37 AM

"I had two DVD copies made directly from a betacam sp master"

With what? Standalone DVD recorder? Computer? What type (-R, +R, -RW, +RW, Authoring, General)? What brand of blank DVDs

If you made two tape to DVD transfers, using the same master tape and the same equipment, probably your problems have to do with the type/brand of media that was used.

Best regards
Arnaldo

Alessandro Machi May 19th, 2004 09:01 AM

Re: Optimizing stand alone DVD recorders
 
<<<-- Originally posted by Alessandro Machi : I had two DVD copies made directly from a betacam sp master. According to the client, one copy had picture skips and jumps in it, the other one was pretty good except the sound dropped out in one spot.

What does the forum recommend for straight across DVD recording from existing edit master tapes? -->>>

Are you sure that is not clear?

If it isn't, then I'll rephrase it. I have a finished edit master on BetaCam SP, I would like to make some DVD copies from the BetaCam SP.

What standalone DVD recorder is reliable enough to do the job?

Arnaldo Paixao May 21st, 2004 03:16 AM

Alessandro.


"With what? Standalone DVD recorder? Computer? --> We are clear with this one. A standalone DVD recorder.


"What type (-R, +R, -RW, +RW)? What brand (Verbatim, Maxell, Princo, no name?) of blank DVDs" --> This is a very important part of the problem and you haven't told us what blank DVDs were used.

What settings were used on the recorder, standard quality, best quality? The audio? PCM, AC3(Dolby Digital)?

Unfortunately, recording DVDs that will be playable in all standalone players is not easy. You have to be patient.

So, back to your problem: "What standalone DVD recorder is reliable enough to do the job?" Any that will record DVDs that are playable in your client's DVD players.


Some advice:
Use a known brand recorder (Sony, Philips, Pioneer, to name a few)
Use known brand media (Verbatim, Sony, TDK, again to name a few)
Use -R or +R, do not use -RW or +RW (they are the least compatible)
Try your DVDs in diferent players. If they play ok in other players, it means that you client's is one of those that doesn't like recordable DVDs. Sometimes there is nothing wrong with the DVD, the player simply does not have the ability to read it properly.

I hope this will help you. If you need more help please tell us.

Best regards,
Arnaldo

Alessandro Machi May 21st, 2004 04:46 AM

I have a follow up question.

Can a DVD Standalone recorder detect a difference between recording a TV show as it is being broadcast versus recording from a BetaCam SP master that is compliant with technical requirements for picture and sound?

Steve McDonald July 3rd, 2004 07:01 AM

This is about 6 weeks after the fact, but Sony announced what may be a better DVD/harddrive standalone recorder, on May 20th.

It records and plays all DVD video formats except DVD-RAM. It has an i-Link
interface that can control a DV or Digital8 camcorder or VTR and is described as having improved features for copying digital video onto the 160Gb harddrive or to all the DVD formats. It should also have better functions for editing video onto the harddrive or to an RW DVD.

It is scheduled for a November release and based on the $1,000. MSRP, it would likely have a street price of about $800. in U.S. money, from a mailorder dealer.

There aren't a lot of details available yet, but I'm speculating that it may be more suitable for serious videomakers who need to make DVD copies, than many of the existing standalone recorders. It can also be connected by S-Video and this would allow adding alternate audio programs by audio connections from digital sources, without using a computer or digital A/V mixer. It has the usual collection of program tuning and timed-recording features.

The fact that it will record DVD-R/RW and +R/RW, is a bonus. Here's a link for the news release: http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/4802

Steve McDonald

Steve McDonald July 3rd, 2004 07:15 AM

I need to add that the model no. of the DVD recorder I mentioned above, is the RDR-HX900.

Steve McDonald

Alessandro Machi July 3rd, 2004 07:57 AM

Steve, thanks for the update!

If I am not mistaken wasn't Sony the one that came out with the +R version of DVD?

As it was explained to me Phillips and Sony wanted to compete with Pioneer and they created +R to the Pioneer's -R. I think Sony may have backed the wrong choice and now is trying to make amends by offering both choices in their DVD recorder.

So the fact that their new DVD recorder also offers +R is probably because Sony was behind that system form the get go. I wonder if their new box will default to +R instead of the more popular -R.

Does anyone have an opinion on the new JVC dual DVD recorder?

It's got S-VHS/VHS on one side, the DVD recorder on the other.
It seems well thought out, but it is priced as a professional product.

Boyd Ostroff July 3rd, 2004 10:20 AM

Sorry, I missed this thread the first time around. I bought a Sony RDR-GX7 DVD recorder last fall. I have not really seen any "dropout" problems on this machine, although my use has been light. Like most questions here at DVinfo.net, starting off with a search may be useful:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=24160
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=19013
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=17519
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=12927

If you set the quality level to the max (60 minutes/disc) on the Sony I think it looks quite good. The only problem I've had at this setting was some very noisy footage shot under dark conditions. The MPEG compression made that look very distracting, but the original footage was marginal at best. I have played the discs on a variety of DVD players, old and new, and several different computers; there were no compatability problems.

Only issue I can see for your application is that none of the consumer decks offer component INPUT, just output (AFAIK), so you would have to use s-video. I have not done any analog recording on my deck, but it features a number of settings to improve results from poor quality sources like TV and VHS. These are more consumer oriented than pro of course.

There are some very nice looking pro DVD recorders that have component input and 1394 output, but you'll pay big $$$ for those...


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