It's not correct to say that this is an FU to europe. What leaving 25p (not to mention 24p) off the camera is is an FU to any independent filmmaker that hoped they might be able to use this camera to make a feature. And this is /not/ an oversight, it is a cynical strategy to protect sales of more expensive Canon gear.

Again: notice that no vendor on the planet will offer 24p HD and an interchangeable lens system to the low-budget indie filmmaker (we must always resort to hackery). And that includes RED, a company that after all the "revolutionary" rhetoric would have to now be considered sellouts.

I suspect/hope RED's announcement tomorrow will bring about a camera with a larger sensor but lower framerate for less money than, say the S35 or FF35 Scarlets they already announced. After all, many of us will run out and buy a 5d MkII the minute either 25p or 24p support is officially announced or unofficially hacked. By the time RED's scarlet comes out a year from now, there willl a lot of tricked-out 5d MkIIs acting as the darlings of the no-budget indie film world (especially if the shutter/aperture options are more "manualized"), and I'm pretty sure that's a market segment RED wants (in addition to the higher-end). The D90 and more so the MkII have shown what's possible with large sensors at an extremely low price point -- essentially doing to RED what RED did to Sony/et al. I don't imagine at film festivals a year or two from now that directors saying "we shot it on this amazing dSLR from Canon" would be something the RED folks want to hear all too often.

Anyway, we'll see. Maybe they can't deliver something at such a low price point if all they're selling for exponentially more money is higher framerates and marginally better dynamic range. Regardless, it's a good time to be a digital filmmaker.

I understand what you are saying Steven and I think you are correct about Canon's reasoning... but it is still a definate FU to Europe... maybe even worse so, because of the reasons you state. They have given Europe an unusable feature just to protect their camcorder market.

They could risk losing a whole hell of a lot of trade to Nikon if Nikon release a similar type of camera that shoots at 24/25p, opening itself up to the PAL market.

Canon may end up losing out in both the DSLR and camcorder markets (in europe and with filmakers, at least)

That's the bad part. The more senior levels looks at sales and says "what problem?". Insufficient manual control is another bizarre situation. Before the limitations were understood, potential new Canon owners were asking about which Canon lenses to purchase. Now were talking about which Nikon Lenses will work on the 5DII.
Canon never adds features. Maybe this will be an exception.
Has anyone asked Canon, asked CPS Europe, for an official response of how the camera was going to work with 50i? It's a fair question.

If they change the product lineup after just a few weeks they will look bad. I think they will expand on the DSMC concept. For all their talk this year they didn't announce anything last month that would make a still photographer believe they "had a clue".

The lens thing is huge.

If I get a 5D MkII, I will will buy it for video, but will use it for stills as well. I'll buy mostly primes. I want the lenses to do all the AF tricks for stills, but I MUST be able to control aperture manually for video. Cost is another factor.

So... can I do it all with the latest Canon glass? Do I need to get manual Nikon glass for manual aperture control? Am I now screwed for stills? Will I end up with a Canon zoom for stills and Nikon primes for video?

Clearly, Canon and I are BOTH better off if I buy the latest Canon glass and I can use all the lenses to their full potential on both stills and video.

Unless Canon issues a firmware update adding manual aperture or at least aperture priority movie mode, yes.

Guys,

Some of you may remember the debacle over the pro level Eos1dmkIII DSLR autofocus issues and Canon's failures to address successfully what was one of the primary functions of the camera for about a year. Rob Galbraith DPI: An analysis of EOS-1D Mark III autofocus performance

They lost a lot of sales to Nikon over that one but they still didn't rush to fix it.

Now the 5dmkII functions exactly how it is specified to in video and so from their point of view nothing is wrong with it. If they take so long to fix known problems why would they rush to fix problems that don't think are problems.

About three years ago I used to attend Canon Europa's pro round tables with a select group of top photographers from the major news agencies. They spent two days letting us test the cameras on a race circuit and in the studio because they wanted to know how to make them better. At that time we told them about many improvements that should have been made to the original 5D and Eos1DmkII for stills work. Many of those improvements could have been made in firmware but actually you had to wait until the 5DmkII and 1DmkIII came along to see most of them.

These are the reasons I can't really see them rushing to add features to the movie mode. I hope I am wrong. I think it will take Nikon or Sony to introduce new models with video before you see a big change.

Dan

Thanks for the insight, Dan. I suppose our hopes lie with CHDK or someone else to figure out the firmware...

CHDK - CHDK Wiki

As for the new RED announcement, it's nothing that really affects the full-frame, low-light shooter currently evaluating the 5d MkII for video. The $3k RED is a hell of a deal, absolutely -- no denying that. But you've still got to shell out $7k plus lenses and accessories (bringing it to $10k, absolute minimum) to even get to a Super35-sized sensor.

http://www.redgrabs.com/up/1228299243.jpg