Wow, the camera has barely been released and already Canon sales numbers are public? What sort of numbers are we talking here?

I don't want to derail the Canon discussion, but can someone point me in the direction of the official Nikon announcement? I was hoping for a pro model of the d90 with 1080p since we already have Nikon stuff here.

I don't know anything official... but I had a good chat with a rep from pixmania, who are one of the top electronics retailers throughout europe.

He said that take up for the 5DII was not really happening at all... I asked why he thought that was and he said it is a mixture of 30fps video and the fact that, although it is a good upgrade for DSLR use, it is not an essential one and that quite a few Canon photographers were actually unhappy with the new model's specs. They didn't care for the megapixel upgrade and wanted faster fps and better AF (apparently).

There are no waiting lists and pre-orders are to be shipped straight away... so I assume what he is saying is fairly accurate.

A lot of that I find so obvious that it's no surprise to me. As a Canon shooter, it kind of pains me to says this, but if it weren't for the (somewhat crippled) video functionality in the new 5D, I personally think the D700 BLOWS AWAY the 5D because of things like full frame, amazing AF, better TTL, on board flash, speed, stunning high ISO, etc. Now if you want video, albeit somewhat crippled, or need the added pixels, or already own a lot of canon glass, then it might be worth it, which is my case. But, the D3/D700 from a purely photographic standpoint are looking awful attractive at this point. And not at least providing 25p for euroland is basically a giangantic FU to europe.

If it is true that the 5dII was the biggest pre-order DSLR ever in america.... you have to hope that canon are going to want the same to happen in europe.... that will only happen by adding 25fps. (the head guys at canon must have spotted that adding video equaled a huge spike in interest)

I can't imagine there are huge technological issues (maybe shutter speed is the problem?)

I have heard the arguement that they don't want to tread on the camcorder side of their business.... but with the 5dII coming in a £3000 (with lens) it is not far off the price of Canon's prosumer range, in fact the Canon XH-A1 is £600 cheaper.... I would expect a 25fps DSLR would shift a whole lot more units than their prosumer camcorders.

Here's hoping for 25fps, very soon (as long as I can flip back to 30fps when I want)

Is this really true or just speculation around here? I waited until I saw Reverie to pre-order and just got shipping notification from Ritz today, so either there aren't that many pre-orders or they really ramped up production to meet the initial demand.

Demand is huge. You got lucky. The market isn't perfect. There are a few unsold units in dealers shelves (somewhere), but some people won't get their pre-orders until next year.

I don't know where the 'no sales in Europe' idea is coming from, my dealer of many years in London has reported massive backorders. The long queues are assured because there are so many original 5D users waiting for this camera as a replacement because they couldn't or wouldn't jump to Nikon. The video is only a secondary reason to buy this camera.

Maybe some European dealers are trying to talk down the 5DmkII order situation because they are not getting much stock of the 5DmkII allocated from Canon.

This is of course bad news for those of us trying to persuade Canon that they need to put 25p into the camera.

Don't worry, once all those folks realize what this all means, Canon will have plenty of pressure to fix it. Not sure about 24p, but they'll be hearing a lot about 25p for sure, lol.

like I said, the guy I was speaking to was a salesman for one electronics company... so you never know what lines they are feeding you or for what reason.

maybe the dedicated camera shops are selling well, but the "supermarket" type outlets like Amazon and Pixmania (and video outlets) are struggling more?

I have not heard of any pre-order backlogs though, from anyone ordering in Europe.

It's not correct to say that this is an FU to europe. What leaving 25p (not to mention 24p) off the camera is is an FU to any independent filmmaker that hoped they might be able to use this camera to make a feature. And this is /not/ an oversight, it is a cynical strategy to protect sales of more expensive Canon gear.

Again: notice that no vendor on the planet will offer 24p HD and an interchangeable lens system to the low-budget indie filmmaker (we must always resort to hackery). And that includes RED, a company that after all the "revolutionary" rhetoric would have to now be considered sellouts.

I suspect/hope RED's announcement tomorrow will bring about a camera with a larger sensor but lower framerate for less money than, say the S35 or FF35 Scarlets they already announced. After all, many of us will run out and buy a 5d MkII the minute either 25p or 24p support is officially announced or unofficially hacked. By the time RED's scarlet comes out a year from now, there willl a lot of tricked-out 5d MkIIs acting as the darlings of the no-budget indie film world (especially if the shutter/aperture options are more "manualized"), and I'm pretty sure that's a market segment RED wants (in addition to the higher-end). The D90 and more so the MkII have shown what's possible with large sensors at an extremely low price point -- essentially doing to RED what RED did to Sony/et al. I don't imagine at film festivals a year or two from now that directors saying "we shot it on this amazing dSLR from Canon" would be something the RED folks want to hear all too often.

Anyway, we'll see. Maybe they can't deliver something at such a low price point if all they're selling for exponentially more money is higher framerates and marginally better dynamic range. Regardless, it's a good time to be a digital filmmaker.

I understand what you are saying Steven and I think you are correct about Canon's reasoning... but it is still a definate FU to Europe... maybe even worse so, because of the reasons you state. They have given Europe an unusable feature just to protect their camcorder market.

They could risk losing a whole hell of a lot of trade to Nikon if Nikon release a similar type of camera that shoots at 24/25p, opening itself up to the PAL market.

Canon may end up losing out in both the DSLR and camcorder markets (in europe and with filmakers, at least)

That's the bad part. The more senior levels looks at sales and says "what problem?". Insufficient manual control is another bizarre situation. Before the limitations were understood, potential new Canon owners were asking about which Canon lenses to purchase. Now were talking about which Nikon Lenses will work on the 5DII.
Canon never adds features. Maybe this will be an exception.
Has anyone asked Canon, asked CPS Europe, for an official response of how the camera was going to work with 50i? It's a fair question.

If they change the product lineup after just a few weeks they will look bad. I think they will expand on the DSMC concept. For all their talk this year they didn't announce anything last month that would make a still photographer believe they "had a clue".