Hard to understand that. yes know port out of camcorder is both in and out. so?
There is only one -- so how could I record from camcorder to another deck and computer at same time? thanks!

Right, it's a bidirectional port. That's how you're able to control the camera's playback via firewire while it's playing. The computer sends signals to the camera and tells it where to move, and the camera sends back a picture, sound and position info.

The Firewire hub works the same way a USB hub works. Or a power strip for plugging electrical stuff into, for that matter. You plug in one device (the hub) and get multiple places to plug in. If your computer has multiple firewire ports, that would maybe work too.

You know, now that I think about this, the physical connection is easy, it's making the gear behave accordingly that may be difficult. With a hub, the recording camera MAY see the video stream and record it. But it may send it into the computer without going to the other ports in the hub, and then you need to tell the computer to record as well as repeat the signal, and I'm not sure if that's possible or not. It's just a software thing, but I don't know if such a program exists.

But now you know that a firewire is just like a usb hub, or a power strip. They're just a rare piece of equipment, but they're out there and they're not very expensive..

Eric

i haven't read through the entire thread, but have you tried to capture directly from a live camera? if you still get the problem then you can eliminate timecode/tape capture issues as the culprit. and if you try capturing on another system that would also help narrow down things.

I've found its always best to leave space at the beginning of the tape, video heads need a few seconds to get the tape up to speed to start recording properly. Make sure your shooting in 16 bit audio, if you shot in 12 and trying to capture in 16 that can cause problems. Fragmented drive can cause problems. Its also best to turn off hard drive power saver/sleep modes, ie it takes a few seconds to wake up the drive and that would interfere with the beginning of a capture.

And Kevin, Theo was referring to recording live on location and recording into the camera's tape and the laptop at the same time. I do that as well, works great. No more capturing unless something happens with the computer, then you have a tape backup already in place. :)

Eric: well I see where you are going: I plug camcorder into a hub and capture to comupter, then I take cord from hub and put it into my second camroder to record at same time? has anyone done this?

Pete: I honestly have not made sure I was 10 seconds into the tape before capturing, so I 'll try remember that, but not sure that was the issue.

ERic: ok, did not know thats what you meant. Too late for that, but good info to know -- capture on the shoot.

i didn't read through the thread did you figure out the problem?

I'm not sure if he did or not.

I don't have a firewire hub, but I'd be interested if something else does to see if you can use it to record and play through with 2 cameras, and capture at the same time. :)

oh jeeze, he was plugging into a hub instead of going directly into the computer. lol, well thats it right there.

No, he doesn't have a firewire hub. But my suggestion was to try one, and maybe that could be used to pick the firewire stream off of, to record to a second camera while capturing.

I don't think you're reading this thread very carefully :)

Eric

Pete: I do have a FW hub, but how critical is that. I've got every periphal you can think of in FW hubs with no issue. Is capturing the ony expection to this perfect record of stability?

thanks Again Eric; yes lets see if someone has done that:
record and play through with 2 cameras, and capture at the same time.

Well if you have the gear, or can borrow a camera, can you try it? I think the worst that would happen is the recording camera won't see any signal. If this does work, you could make one of those cd/dvd duplication towers, but with a bunch of cheap dv camera instead :)

its a long thread and i have skimmed through roughly half of the posts so I might be missing something so sue me.

I'm rather good at trouble shooting problems. What I'm pointing out is if you're having problems your first step is to use a base configuration. I've found a number of devices that don't like being plugged into a hub. So its unwise to use anything in between the camera and the computer, your only adding to the complexity of the problem. You should have two 7200 internal hard drives that have contiguous free space and be capturing to the non system drive. Can you capture to an external drive sure but if your having problems, then i repeat base configuration first.

Lets take an broad view of the situation and where the problem may lie:
1. Its either a hardware or software:

Hardware:
a) Camera b)Computer c)connector cable and/or firewire hub

Software:
a)FCP b)OS

The best way to sort out this problem is start at the source, the camera. Use another camera. If another camera works then bingo its the camera. If it still does the same thing then its the computer and/or your setup.

I agree, that's a good way to troubleshoot, but using 2 7200 rpm drives doesn't help with the troubleshooting. If you only need 3.5megs/sec to capture, you don't need even 1 7200 rpm drive. ;) I can capture to either a 4200 or 5400 rpm drive in my laptops with no problems.

I've lost track here, Kevin, are you still having problems or are we now looking for cool computer tricks? :)

Theo, Eric, Nate, Marty:

Just re-read this thread and tried to give it another go.
This time I plugged in directly to the computer and not hub.
That did not help; still get
"dropped frames detected" after few seconds.

I then unchecked, "report dropped drames"
that did not help either, just mind blowing.

Marty:
I looked everywhere for Capture settings, can't find it. I have HD express, don't see this. I remember when I had FCP 3 an audio/video settings. But would this really help anyway? ie. going from Firewire to non controllable device? I remember being able to capture fine with FW before. There is any Easy setup, but you cannot alter it. Am I out of luck here, or just cannot find it?

And what funny it the VTR is fine and connecting good.

One thing that is strange/sad, is that on this round, I'm not even seeing the render files being created on the scrath disc like I did before. NOthing there at all.

I have decided for now to keep trying here in FCP HD express and not yet that other app suggested as for some reason that seems much more complex. Any ideas appreciated. thanks!

I would try another app, any app that can capture (iMovie for example?). Just to see if you can get the footage into the computer.

You *may* have a bad firewire cable. I don't remember if this was covered or not. I've been awake about 21 hours now and had a full day at Disney World (hit all 4 parks!), so I'm a little bit wiped out right now. I have a 4 pin to 4 pin that may have gotten bent a little too far and damaged the conductors slightly. I was getting glitches (little digital bits of garbage) randomly when recording from the live camera direct into the laptop. When capturing the tape that was recording at the same time, there were no glitches in those spots. My camera seems to be fine, my computer seems to be.. It appears the cable is giving the dropouts.

Again, forgive me if I mentioned this before (or if someone else mentioned a cable problem), I'm a bit worn down right now. ;)

I don't know that glitches would appear the same as dropped frames or not, but possibly?

Eric

thanks for the cable idea, very unlikely, but you never know. Don't seem to have i movie or any other app. I have a whole nother thread on other apps, and there don't seem to be any great suggestions on that.
Someone on another board offered idea of upgrading to 3.5 for FCP express so that a new idea.

(think cable is 6 pin to 4 pin)

isn't it amazing still getting this after chaning prefernce?

and what about changing to non-controllable device, dont see that option?

and where is footage that does capture, nowhere to be found

Check the cable. I was just trying to use one here with my camera and it just does weird things. It's a simple thing to swap it with another one.

I thought iMovie was on all Macs? Or can it be reinstalled at least?

can you search for files larger than say 500 megs and track down the captured footage that way?

dont see i movie anywhere.
why search? it should have come up in the hardrive root.

someone also has idea of reinstalling 10.4.9 as bundle whatever that means

Well if they captured somewhere else, a search will find where they are. :)

I'm not sure about the other stuff, I don't have a Mac.

Someone else wanna chime in here?

ding?

thanks help Eric, appreciate it, not even sure what to search for , not even sure what name it.

Okay, search for avi files or dv or m2v or whatever it's set to capture and see where they are located. Then you don't need a filename. Or if it requires it, try *.qt or whatever. that will work on unix (osx)

Eric

thanks Eric, what is default to capture to?

I'm sorry, I have no idea. :)

Just check the settings in your software and see what the location is set to and the filetype for capturing.

Well location is just scrath settings and like said, they did not show on that hard drive.
File extention or type, can't find anything referencing that.

Okay, I just checked with a friend. He said dv/dvcpro unlimited size, ntsc, quicktime files by default.

Hope that helps you. I wish someone else would jump in here. There's always like 5-600 people on this forum.. :)

So Eric, then just search for all .mov extentsions? is that correct? that is what the movie clip would be?

BTW, from another forum some folks this this whole issue may be compaltiblity issue with my Sony Camcorder and FCP Express, not sure if that is it definitevly yet.

Exactly, just search for *.mov and you should find where the files went.

Have you tried a regular DV capture? (this is an HDV camera right?)

Can you capture with the camera in camera (vs VCR) mode?

I don't imagine there would be a problem with an industry standard data stream from a specific camera, but I've seen stranger things I guess.

thanks Eric

I have the camera in play mode and just play. correct no?

but there may be this issue that fcp express needs to approve each and every camera. never knew this!

this sony camcorder is only deck have right now.

the .mov search not so good, because turns out I have billion .mov clips saved from internet.

Problem solved, or should say mystery novel solved.
Info provided by Tom Wolsky (he's author of FCP books).

The 10.4.9 upgrade has conflict with Spotlight, but setting privacy to capture folder solves issue (as workaround) -- a workaround I will have to do for long time being not planning on upgrading the OS until G6 computer comes out.

Now is that one of the most arcane things you have ever heard? Wonder how anyone even figured it out.

PS, someone mentioned setting to uncontrollable device, which I did not have to do, but curious on that -- isn't capture now, the same idea? with capture now you are controlling with camera.