FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

Could you FPV guys weigh in on your preference, monitor or goggles; pros, cons, etc. Thank you

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

Goggles are very dangerous if you are flying and monitoring at the same time. You don't want your camera's FOV to be the ONLY thing you can see, in my opinion.

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

I own both, and I use both depending on where I'm flying. In big open areas where there are no obstacles to hit, the goggles are great. But if I'm flying a bit lower to the ground or there are trees in the area, I use the monitor so I can see my quadcopter as well as the FPV feed.

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

There is a requirement in the UK to maintain LOS at all times, so if flying fpv with goggles, it's necessary to also have a spotter with you. That's not a problem for me, as I prefer to fly with a monitor so that I can keep an eye on the actual position of the quad. I also use the monitor mainly for framing shots, so am not interested in the sort of fpv that takes the quad a long way from LOS.

Roger

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

Thanks for the responses. I was definitely thinking of having a spotter and having the option of taking a quick glance around myself. I probably will go the monitor route to start with. I already have a TV Logic monitor i use when shooting video. Will it work for me or are there special monitors just for this application? Thanks again.

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

No special requirements for monitors that I know of. Just need AV input for whatever receiver you plan to use.

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

The downside to monitors is the reflection, also it can be a bit disorienting when you look up from the monitor expecting to see the MR and it isn't there.

Goggles are all immersion, its like a video game but if you suffer from motion sickness it might not work for you. It takes a little getting used too..

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

Interesting thread---I've been wondering the same thing. DSLRPros.com claims on their website that 95% of video producers using RC copters use a monitor, and only use goggles for those rare shots when they want to fly through something (like an arch).

My biggest concern with using a monitor is obviously sunlight. I've been in MANY situations shooting outdoors where I couldn't see a thing on the screen (on a variety of different monitors).

Obviously some sort of monitor hood can help...but I haven't seen a single video (yet) of a remote drone pilot using a monitor hood. I'd consider it essential.

For this reason I'm also interested in researching monitors to find the absolutely brightest, sharpest one out there. I think it would be worth spending the money (I'm thinking, for example, an OLED monitor would be good, if one exists?)

Scott

EDIT: A quick Google search resulted in this company, who sells OLED monitors in 7-9" sizes. As I suspected, they aren't cheap ($1K-$2500)...but I still think if you're serious about drone videography, this would be a must over some cheap, not-very-bright monitor.
http://www.smallhd.com/products/ac7/

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

scott, i have a tv logic monitor that i've never used outside. i guess today is the day to try it out. i'll get back.

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

Yes Jerry---let us know how that works!

The way I figure it, for any aerial university video we shoot is going to be done only on sunny, blue-sky days. Aside from just looking better, that gives the best-quality image with a GoPro.

I can't tell you how many times I've been shooting video with my DSLR and didn't have an LCD viewfinder attached (like a Zacuto) and I went nuts trying to frame shots and follow action...just generally a pain. So I'd hate to have "visual friction" like that when flying a drone! :-)

Scott

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

So far I am finding that the best results with my Phantom & GoPro footage with a gimbal is in the golden hour or so before sunset (and I suspect at sunrise as well) A snag with any rolling shutter camera is the jello of course. And I found the higher shutter speed the GoPro must have used gave loads more jello and the footage while very sharp and bright did not look anything like as good as the shots done later in the day. I have yet to invest in FPV but can see glare on the monitor being a big issue. While for me with glasses and a complex prescription- goggles are out of the question I think.

bill

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

I use a simple card screen hood that I made up and attached to the 7" monitor. By using it close to my face, I get a pretty good shaded screen image even on a sunny day.

Jello is often a problem on the GoPro on bright sunny days, the easiest way round it being to attach a ND filter to slow down the shutter speed.

Roger

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

I was wondering why I was getting jello on bright days! That never occurred to me.

Can you recommend any ND filters that can be attached directly to the lens?

FYI, if you are near sighted, you can buy an additional diopter lens for Fatshark goggles.

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

Usually it's lower shutter speed that makes jello worse, since the readout from the sensor is happening more slowly, giving the frame more time to change before the readout is complete ... is the GoPro different for some reason?

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

I'm not sure but I've noticed it too, it only happens when the camera is pointing directly into the sun

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

I didn't realize the goggles were a thing that actually "took off". . .remember hearing about them some time ago but thought it was maybe one of those products that died out quickly.

So how are they?

I don't do any aerial stuff at all, so not a concern there, but I DO shoots where the cam is above me (cause I'm short, yo) on a tripod, making me have to look up to watch the LCD (no monitor for me yet). Also just did a drag racing shoot (NOT ON THE TRACK!), which was brutal cause I was shooting INTO The sun the whole day (nothing I could do, we could only set up in a certain area and obviously where the track was oriented couldn't be changed), doing 180 degree pans right past the sun. Something like goggles might have been nice for those.

So for situations like that, are they a viable solution? I don't have motion sickness issues that I know of (The universe's way of compensating for me being allergic to just about everything else I guess).

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

You are quite right technically Finn, but the jello on the quad is usually caused by high frequency vibration, so on a bright day, the higer shutter speed will freeze the vibrations in a way that a slower shutter speed won't. So adding the ND filter will slow down the shutter speed, allowing the high frequency vibrations to be more blurred and less noticeable. Unless you are using a very high frame rate, there will always be a little bit of blur in images from a moving video camera, which is not noticeable when viewing the moving image, so slowing the shutter speed in this case, will help reduce the jello in bright light without noticeing the slight increase in blurring. If you don't notice it on footage on duller days, then you won't notice it by stopping down with an ND filter on bright days.

Also a higher frame rate will improve the jello effect, whereas a lower frame rate will make it worse. Here is a link to a company supplying filters for the GoPro, although they are pretty easy to make from a cheaper DLSR filter and a cutter.
"Frame" Neutral Density Glass Filter-GoPro Hero3 - GoPro - Polar Pro Filters

Roger

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

Thanks for the continued great information Roger. I think we're getting close to pulling the trigger on buying a Phantom...and I've decided to just go with a Phantom 2 full kit from DSLRPros.com:
DJI Phantom 2 | Sundance DP Edition P2 Aerial Kit - DSLRPros | DSLR Rigs|Products|Dslrpros.com
This kit includes the newer H3-3D gimbal. I figure the kit will save me some time (which is precious!) with integrating/assembling everything.

The only other option I considered---which seems cheaper but *might* be better, is this F550 Hexrotor kit from Helipal.com...
DJI Sale DJI F550 V2.1 w/ NAZA V2 Flight Controller (RTF) - HeliPal
That kit is $999 (with Tx and Rx), so you'd also have to add the gimbal, GoPro, and an FPV system---but I think you could add all of that and still come out spending less than the DSLRPros Phantom 2 kit.

Roger and others---if anyone thinks the F550 hex (all DJI components) would be a much better purchase than the Phantom 2 quad, let me know (I'm kinda waffling between the two).

Scott

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

I actually purchased an F550 kit to replace my Phantom yesterday. I did so for a few reasons:

- It has a 2.3kg payload, so you can carry much bigger batteries, gimbals and cameras.
- It is a lot more stable in the wind than the Phantom, which I see as a big benefit.
- If you crash, you usually just have to replace a couple of arms (very cheap).
- Being a hexacopter, if you pair it with the Wookong controller you can lose a motor and still continue to fly.

I plan to buy the new 3-axis Zenmuse gimbal when it comes out, so I'll post up some test footage when I can.

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

Thanks Jody—those are all compelling arguments in favor of the F550. I'd like to study the supposed advantages of the DSLRPros kit more to see what---if anything---would be lost by going with the F550?

For example, DSLRPros claim that they have set up the programming in the Futaba Tx to provide much smoother, slower tilting and panning...but I don't know if that's something easily done with any programmable transmitter?

The DSLRPro kit also comes with things like prop guards (not sure how necessary those are when flying outdoors?) and carbon fiber props (again, do those really help much?). So it's entirely possible the DSLRPro kit might really just be overpriced for the basic system plus a bunch of little extras. I'll need to price out everything separately for the F550 and see how it compares.

Scott

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

Hey Jodi, how is the F550 doing. I'm like Scott, on the fence re: the F550 vs Phantom?

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

Still waiting for it to arrive.. I'll keep you posted though, I'm expecting it next week.

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

Great Jody, what camera and gimbel are you going to use?

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

Just FYI, I sent this same question to Aerial Media Pros, just to get their take on it. They've been at NAB all week so I haven't expected to hear back from them 'til next week.

They sell packages for both the F550 and Phantom...and interestingly, they state on their website that the F550 is one of their most popular platforms and a good training platform (which suggests they don't think it's any different or harder to fly than a Phantom).

So while I've gotten the expense account "unlocked" for a purchase (and my trigger finger is itching!)...I'm in a holding pattern at the moment just waiting to hear back from Aerial Media Pros---not just to get their take on F550 or Phantom, but to see what kind of turnaround time would be involved if I buy a full package from them---they seem very backed-up at the moment, partly due to waiting on more Zenmuse 3D gimbals.

Scott

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

I'd agree with this. The F550 will most likely use the same flight controller as the Phantom (NAZA M V2), so the flight characteristics will be very similar.

For now I plan to use the new Zenmuse 3-axis gimbal and a GoPro. But eventually I'd like to use a Sony NEX-5 or something similar.

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

i've been reading about a lot of problems dealing with the gopro software...and i have an nex5. So that means a f550 is looking better, but more expensive gimbal wise. Maybe you, Jodi, can address the gopro software thing. I have final cut pro. would that negate having to use the gopro software?

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

I personally only ever use the GoPro software to convert the native MP4 files to MOV which is a lot easier on my NLE.

FCP (and most decent editing software) should be able to handle the MP4 files straight off the GoPro, but I find my computer struggles with them whereas it flies through the MOV files.

So either way, the GoPro software isn't essential, it's just handy. And I haven't experienced any issues with it myself.

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

I've never used the GoPro software, as installing it led to a problem with other software. Apparently this os not uncommon, as it moves a vital DLL to a different location which means that other programmes can't find it. I use Magix Movie Edit ProX6 which has no problem with GoPro footage.

Roger

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

Thank you guys very much. Excuse my ignorance but what is DLL? Is that a microsoft thing?

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

A .DLL file is a dynamic link library file. They are often shared files and an .exe file may search for a shared .dll as a programme loads. If a shared .dll has been moved by a programme such as the GoPro software for it's own use, some other programmes may fail to load or not run properly.

Roger

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

thanks for the explanation. i think i'll find someone with a gopro and see for myself. thanks again.

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

You'll be fine if you're on a Mac Jerry. I have the GoPro studio software and it works fine on the Mac (to convert the AVI files to MOV files via Cineform compression)...but I've also imported GoPro footage directly into Premiere Pro on the Mac with no problem.

@Jody: I've been reading a lot of posts about problems with the Zenmuse 3D gimbal over on the RCGroups.com...some appear to be working, but others have had issues (possibly relating to firmware?). Anyway, I'm still waiting to hear from Aerial Media Pros---will keep everyone posted.

I don't want to buy anything 'til a) I can get a 3D gimbal, and b) I'm reasonably sure the bugs are worked out of the 3D gimbal.

Scott

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

That's disappointing. DJI never seem to get it right the first time. The 2D gimbal had a lot of issues too.

I'll definitely be waiting a while to buy it, at least until they release a V2.

Until then, I've been reading very good reviews about this one: DYS Smart3 3 Axis GoPro Gimbal with AlexMos Control Board (BaseCam)

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

I have been following the progress of the zenmuse H3-3D quite closely and it looks as if a lot of the issues are with the gimbal being installed incorrectly by the user. Putting the drop pins that hold it in place in the wrong holes allows the gimbal to catch on the pin when it yaws making it go into its hibernation mode and shut down briefly. Pushing the washer over the stabilizing balls too far can cause the gimbals top motor to touch the battery inside the craft and cause jello. Also the latest firmware for the gimbal does not update the settings for the gimbal (and it still uses the older settings) and again can cause jello on the footage. But even so I will be waiting a while yet till I see consistant good footage and results being posted. Plus at the moment it seems out of stock anyway! (At least in the UK).

Re: FPV: Monitor or Goggles
 

@Jody: thanks for the link---interesting! I admit I'm itching to to make a purchase...and I'm not enthusiastic about waiting around for the Zenmuse 3D to work perfectly.

But Bill, you summed up the issues better than I understood them...so perhaps the Zenmuse 3D is fine---if installed with extreme care and attention to detail?

Still haven't heard from Aerial Media Pros. I may start making some phone calls to find out more about the Zenmuse 3D gimbal (both in terms of issues and supply).

Scott