Smaller HDV camera?
 

Okay, I would love to buy a new HDV camera, but, the size is a concern.
I currently have the sony vx2000 and it really is about as big as I want since
I love to take it on family trips like to Disneyland. I have held a FX1 and it
really is large. Any idea if anything at NAB will be offered in a size around
the vx2000?

Thanks

I wouldn't expect a smaller cam right away, if at all.

What are the technical reasons? The existing HDV JVC is sure smaller than my vx2000.

Dave

Ooop's, I swallowed my Camcorder
 

In talks with JVC's technical guys they don't see why a HDV camcorder couldn't be made small enough to hide in your mouth, should the need arise (and your mouth is, well, large enough). They said "chips is chips" and an MPEG circuit board is the same size as a DV board. and doesn't draw any extra current. A "Everio" sized (JVC consumers new little camera) could be HDV if people want it (albeight not recording on tape). I think we will see HDV in cell phones soon enough but it's alway's been up to the consumers to ask for it. Want to see my HDV wristwatch?

This is true about the HD10, smaller than a DVX100A, but surprisingly heavier.

heath

I know this doesn't address the needs of the original poster, but one thing I like about the FX1 as opposed to the HD10 is that it looks more like a legit camera.

Smaller doesn't impress the clients usually and the FX1 helps that 'image' a bit.

As a family person only, my wife has issues using our vx2000.
She was not happy with the size of the fx1 I had her look at.
I can not see me hauling the fx1 around disneyland as I said.

NAB shall be interesting. I may have no choice but the Sony.

Dave

The HD100 is looking to be a great camera.

I will admit that clients like the look of the FX1, the XL2, etc.

heath

I have not yet carried my FX1 around Disney World like I have so many times with my Canon ZR10. However, I have carried it around Hawaii and Acapulco. In both cases I was able to carry it around in the huge Petrol case. I had a car in Hawaii, and I didn't carry it far in Acapulco.

I will be carrying it around on our trip to greece this June. So I need something smaller.

It is certainly heavy. I think the secret will be to find a way to carry it in a case across my chest much like the tripod is across my back. Something padded but just enough to protect me from the sharp parts of the camera and the camera from shocks as I set it down next to me during meals and while resting.

I am thinking something that breathes in the heat and zips/unzips quickly so I don't have to take the carrying case off to get at the camera.

I may need to get one made somehow. Or deal with a case that is too large.

I think the pro-looking FX1 will get you kicked out of Disney.

heath

Perhaps, but I don't think so. There are a lot of big VHS camcorders still in use by people coming to the US on vacation. I have seen quite a few huge cameras. So the FX1 could be confused for one of those by the security guards.

On the other hand, you could be right. I might have to get special permission from the head of customer service.

Are you guys being serious? I have seen a XL1 before in the park.

Dave

An XL1? Cool. That ought to answer the question just fine.

I shoot at Disney World every couple of years, and I plan to retire there. I would like to start a little side business shooting people's vacations for them. So Dad gets in the picture, doesn't have to carry a camera, and has a nice video professionally edited. How I deal with any possible copyright issues is something I haven't worked out yet. What about ambient sound at the parks?

Steven: interesting questions, but they really should be in a separate thread in the "Taking Care of Business" forum, not under "HDV Acquisition Equipment"... :-)

True.

Back on topic, the size of the camera makes a bigger difference to non-technical people than it does to technical people.

I could hold up an old VHS camcorder next to a nice small 3CCD MiniDV camcorder and the larger camera would look more professional to some people.

As far as I am concerned, if the camera is not designed to rest on my shoulder, then I want it as small as possible, given enough room for all of the bells and whistles that I have come to rely on.

The FX1 is huge. It is heavy. But it is the only size that has what I want. I have not seen evidence yet of anything smaller. The only camera with any noise being generated is possibly quite large as well.

Re: Smaller HDV camera?
 

If the evolution of DV is any indication we should be seeing consumer-level HDV in a year or two, in sizes similar to current consumer DV cams.


<<<-- Originally posted by Dave Campbell : Okay, I would love to buy a new HDV camera, but, the size is a concern.
I currently have the sony vx2000 and it really is about as big as I want since
I love to take it on family trips like to Disneyland. I have held a FX1 and it
really is large. Any idea if anything at NAB will be offered in a size around
the vx2000?

Thanks -->>>

I think the only way we'll see HDV really adopted by manufacturers is when native PC and Apple editing applications are perfected, which should be soon.

heath

Heath you must be kidding! You do know iMovie does HDV, don't you? Sure, there are some recompression artifacts, but it's not supposed to be a pro application anyway.

Ignacio,

iMovie HD is something I've used, and I like it, but the artifacting is a bit of a pain.

We talk about it here.

I am hoping Apple has a much better HDV editor in mind in Final Cut Pro 5, which is rumored to premiere at NAB next month, and I'm confident it well.

heath

Re: Smaller HDV camera?
 

<<<-- I love to take it on family trips like to Disneyland. -->>>

Trips? Like plural? Wow. And you want to capture that in high-def? ;-)

I went to Disney World in '77. I got dragged there again in '89. I live in California now and sooner or later someone is going to drag me to Disneyland and I'll wish for sedation for 12 hours. I'll tell you what I did kind of enjoy, though. Someone dragged me to Disney-MGM in '97 or so. The Prime Time Cafe/Tune-In Lounge was cool. That 50's deco thing and the presence of alcohol made the horror of being in hell more tolerable. ;-)

I never understood shooting video in those places, though. "And this was the time we showed little Timmy how to stand in a line for four hours. Man, look how much fun he's having. And here's where we paid $50 for a stuffed rat that spouts cocky phrases when you massage its submaxillary salivary gland!" To me you might as well shoot video in the mall.

That HD-100 sure looks promising, though, huh? ;-)

My family drags me to Disneyland for 5 days once a year.
I have been taking video on every trip for years. Now that I am editing the material into DVD's, it is sure neat to see my kids have a great time when they were small, to see my parents with us, etc. So, I go as a good father and Dad. Now, if the weather is warm, the sights are not bad either. :o)

So yes, I would love to start taking this trip with HD in 16X9.

I have also started to import thousands of slides that family members have. I made on set into a DVD for family members and they just loved it!! These projects are the best things I have ever worked on and will be with my kids well after I am gone.

Dave

I love EPCOT Center and getting the old hippie rock bands on tape in May. I have Arlo Guthrie, Herman's Hermits, and others. Although some don't allow it. Most do.

I love shooting at the Animal Kingdom as well. Not like being in Africa, but better than a zoo for the most part.

And shooting fireworks is always a challenge.

I will actually be retiring to Disney World in three years. A season pass to people watch.

A smaller camera would help, but for now, the huge FX1 will have to do.

<<<-- Originally posted by Dave Campbell : These projects are the best things I have ever worked on and will be with my kids well after I am gone.

Dave -->>>

That's cool. I was mostly just kidding. Still, you might want to consider alternatives. I can barely remember trips to theme parks I took with my family as a kid, but when I close my eyes right now I can still see the gutters running when we went to New Orleans in '69. Or the time they brought out "aged beef" at a cafe in Mexico City in '71 and sliced the green fur off it before cooking it up for us. Or the time bears tore our tent apart in the Smokey Mountains because dad was sure it would be no big deal to leave the cooler in the tent.

No corporate promotional tool will ever give a kid memories that make them remember their folks more fondly than the time the car overheated going up Pike's Peak and dad had to back all the way down the mountain while mom closed her eyes and prayed.

-Dr. Rob (not a licensed family therapist)

We've gotten a little off track here, so let's talk more about smaller HDV cameras.

heath

FWIW, HDV seems ideally suited to very small-scale applications. Its limited bandwidth should allow small flash-based cameras to serve as great "vacation cameras" and because people don't have to have extremely fast RAID systems to edit it the potential for deep market saturation as an early consumer camcorder format is probably pretty high. Everyone seems set on pushing it as a prosumer format instead of looking at who's buying up all the plasma sets and scaling DVD players. Maybe if JVC and Sony would come out with small consumer HDV cameras the volume they did would help push the software development that would help out "prosumers" ("hobbiests" just doesn't sound cool enough, I guess) at the end of the day.

Except that, according to the rules from the HDV consortium, there can be no HDV cameras that record on anything but MiniDV tape. Not even DVCAM track pitch is admitted! Of course this is stupid, MPEG2 is MPEG2 and if a camera records an HDV-compatible data stream it will be ok, even if it can't bear the HDV logo.

JVC has gone beyond the HDV specifications with their HD-100, which is 24p.

heath

Right -- the JVC bears two logos, HDV and ProHD. It can record fully-compliant HDV onto a miniDV tape. Of course, when doing so you don't get 24p, you don't get uncompressed audio, etc., because those aren't part of the HDV spec. So in those cases it records in ProHD mode, which gives you those features, but makes data that is not HDV-compatible, and would not be able to be played back in other HDV equipment (i.e., you're not going to take a ProHD tape over to a Sony FX1 and play it back, it won't work, even though the tape will physically fit in the camera and even though the MPEG-2 compression is compatible between them).