Backing up HD need to dub to HD tape?

[Kevin Shaw]

Originally Posted by Dick Nelson

You can save the raw captured HDV data files to a data DVD-R and preserve it as HD, but you won't be able to stick it into a home player and view it.

Ah, but it turns out you can play raw HDV files on a Playstation 3 if you put them in a folder labeled "videos" on an external hard drive or other suitable device. I haven't tried this on a data DVD yet, but I'd guess there's a good chance it would work.

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[Steven Gotz]

Shoot, I never seem to remember what was deleted. Oh well.

Kevin, the AVeL Linkplayer2 that I use can do the same thing from a data DVD. It is how I show my best footage to my friends. I have even been known to take the player with me to hook up to their TV. Better than carrying the camera.

To answer the question posed by Kevin Carter in a more complete manner:

I wrote:

1. Well, if you use a digital intermediate like Cineform, then yes, it is three times bigger. However, I archive the native HDV and throw out the intermediate files. I can always convert them again and it is timecode perfect.

What this meant was this: A native 1080i HDV capture is 25Mbps just like DV is 25Mbps. Same file size.

With Native HDV, not all of the frames have all of the information because it is temporally compressed - meaning that the frames contain only the changes from the previous and following frames, and not all of the information they need to stand alone. Frames are grouped 15 at a time in a group of pictures (GOP) --This is WAY oversimplified, I know.

This is hard on a computer, because unlike DV where the program shows you the frame you want to see, with MPEG2, the computer has to figure out 15 different frames to show you that one.

However, if you use Cineform Aspect HD or Connect HD, you take the native file and rewrite it to where all of the frames have all the information they need. This takes a one hour HDV file from under 13GB to around 40GB.

When I capture HDV using Cineform, I can just capture the native file and convert it in what looks like a single step to the user. Or, I can choose to save the native and get the conversion also. But I want to use the converted file to allow my computer to edit without a problem.

Why is this a good choice to save the native as well? Well, if I finish my project and throw away the 40GB per hour files, and save the 13GB per hour files, and I ever need to pull out the project and edit it again, I can always just convert the native files to Cineform again whenever I want. It will look exactly as it did before, and the file name will be the same, and the timecode will be the same, so no sweat. Works great and I save a lot of hard drive space by only saving the smaller files.

Did that help?

[Kevin Carter]

I understood a little of that Steve. thanks.
so, with FCP express HD, or quicktime pro, I can import the HD video to computer at the 13GB no problemo?

[Steven Gotz]

Kevin,

You need someone to explain the FCP version of a digital intermediate. And I didn't even know you could capture footage with Quicktime on a Mac.

Sorry, but my Mac knowledge is limited.

[Ron Little]

Steven, what format do you save your edited HDV movies in to play on a PS3 or Link player? Please give the settings.

[Marcus Marchesseault]

2) HD mini DV, not under $10 still anywhere right? if that price point was like $3 of regular that would make decision easier.

You should have no problem using standard DV tape in your HDV camera. They are the same format. If you are just making a backup and still keep the originals, there should be nothing stopping you from using normal (but good quality) DV tape.

[Steven Gotz]

The Linkplayer can play WM9 files, which I use for anything over 20 minutes. The quality is outstanding for anything up to an hour or so. I use a 8Mbps data rate - sounds like DV douesn't it - but I cut back to 5Mbps when I expect people to play it from the DVD on their PC. I also cut back my 1080i to 720 since that is all most people can deal with on their television anyway. Why waste bandwidth on extra pixels the HDTV will throw away?

The Linkplayer will also play a M2T file captured directly from the camera. No deinterlacing required. So that is the best option for anything 20 minutes or less. It looks as good as connecting the camera directly to the HDTV.

[Ron Little]

Thank you for the info. I will be looking into the link player.

[Kevin Carter]

marcus, well back up, but then if you had to rely on it you could not say it's HD.

[Chris Hurd]

Actually yes you can say it's HD, because it is HD.

HDV recorded on DV cassette is indeed HD.

That's a crucial thing to understand.

[Kevin Carter]

Done follow that at all Chris.
Are you saying I don't have to use the $10 HD tapes, and use instead the $3 standard mini DV tapes, and I'm still getting true HD?

[Kevin Shaw]

Originally Posted by Kevin Carter

Are you saying I don't have to use the $10 HD tapes, and use instead the $3 standard mini DV tapes, and I'm still getting true HD?

There's no functional difference between the $10+ HDV tapes and the cheapest miniDV cassettes: the more expensive tapes are just supposed to be less prone to recording dropouts. But the data recorded is identical regardless of the tapes used, just as DV recorded on a $3 tape is the same as DV on a $6 tape. I shot a few hours of HDV on the expensive tapes when I got my first HDV camera and decided that wasn't worth the price: since then I've shot dozens of hours of HDV on Maxell miniDV tapes from Sam's Club with few if any problems. I know others who are using the same tapes successfully as well.

[Kevin Shaw]

By the way, since HDV footage captured via firewire to a hard drive is supposed to be a direct copy, that could also serve as a legitimate unaltered backup. I just checked Pricewatch.com and found 250GB hard drives selling for under $54 each, which means you could back up about 18 hours of HDV footage for the same price as using cheap miniDV tapes.

Plus hard drives take up less space than tapes: I just did a comparison and found that two 3.5" IDE hard drives occupy about the same space as 11 miniDV cassettes in their storage cases. So two 250GB drives would hold more than three times as much HDV footage as tapes by volume, or two 500 GB drives would hold six times as much by volume.

[Kevin Carter]

Wow , this is news to me.
you are saying that this Sony tape that I bought (15 of) when I got my sony HD camorder

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...goryNavigation

have no huge advantage over these, which I was just about to sell a bunch of on ebay:

http://www.supermediastore.com/maxel...nidv-tape.html

I totally assumed when I bought my camorder on B&H under their accessory tab, saw tape said: mini DV, Digital HD Video, that for sure one must get this expensive tape to get the HD part or else you are just getting standard def.
Not so? urban myth? I even heard before I got into HD, that the tapes would cost lost more (but also heard that the hard drive space would be triple)

So I should then sell the 15 expensive Sonys tapes on E bay and keep the Maxells?? thanks!
to sum up: there is nothing inhernt in the HD part of mini DV camorder
to lose the HD-ness, if you will, using the older $3 tapes, and no more hard drive storage needed to tranfer to hard drive.