I'm thinking of switching from Vegas to Edius
 

Hey all,
I'm thinking of switching from Vegas to Edius here pretty shortly as we have decided to go with the P2 native workflow. I'm not really interested in converting all of our footage to some other format before I can edit it. Time is money.

Can you guys weigh in on a few things?

1. What's the learning curve for Edius if I'm a former vegas user?
2. How are the transitions and effects in comparison?
3. How does the workflow compare?
4. Can we edit from the timeline?
5. Does Edius take advantage of dual and quad processor systems?


Any other info that anyone has would be great.

Thanks!
Kit

Hello Kit

1. For all I know I never really liked Vegas that much so I can't be really objective about it. All I can tell you is that having worked intensely on a bunch of different platforms, from Premiere to Avid, I believe Edius is by far the best I've used. You won't find it hard to adjust. Ask someone who has it to let you play with it for a while. I'm sure you'll be amazed.

2. Pretty much the same, if not better. Either drag and drop or with a keyboard shortcut and fully adjustable from the effects tab. Buy a colour-coded keyboard, they are a life-saver. Even better, since keyboard can be customized accordingly, buy an Avid Xpress Pro colour-coded keyboard and arrange shortcuts accordingly. Also, you'll have to work with two monitors and you can arrange, save and load as many layouts as you want.

3. It has its differences but they are not that much to scare you away. My most beloved thing is a that all tools are in front of you. No submenus, no new windows for an action, it's all there and waiting for you. I wish I could show how nice it is but you're gonna have to see it for yourself.

4. I'm not sure exactly what you mean. My guess is dragging all material to the timeline and then trim, re-arrange and so on. The answer to your question is absolutely yes! But why would you edit straight from the timeline? That's why source and record monitors are there for :-)

5. They certainly take advantage of the Dual Core, even double Dual core processors, but for the moment I don't think there is any editing software that takes advantage of the Quad Core. But, don't let me fool you. Simply go to www.canopus.us, click on Support and e-mail them about that. They'll let you know for sure, especially now that the software is in Grass Valley's hands.

Finally, keep in mind that Edius Broadcast in its newest version, 4.54, supports every format in the market, including P2, XDCAM, AVCHD and absolutely no conversion is needed to import and start editing. To give you an idea, recently I had to use avi footage from a camcorder's SD card. All I had to do was import and start editing. No layout change, no conversion. You simply add the footage to the bin, from then to the timeline and you start editing.

I'll try to post a picture of my screen setup to give you an idea

hope this helps

Themis,
Thanks for answering my questions. I have a demo copy that I am going to try out this weekend. When I say edit from the timeline, that's what I mean, dropping effects and doing cuts. Of course you need an external monitor, just wasn't sure how difficult everything is. I like vegas, but it doesn't natively support DVCPRO HD and I sure as hell am not going to waste time converting everything.

Thanks for the info, I appreciate you taking the time. I'll let everyone know more about my findings this weekend.

Kit

Well, you certainly need an external monitor, although by "two screens" I was referring to dual monitors for a larger working surface. I'll soon post a picture of my interface to let you know what I mean. It would be a good idea if you could invest in Edius NX Express for HDV the newest version of the video card, that will give you cpu-based realtime encoding and output to HDV monitor with the expansion kit. What's for sure, Edius supports Panasonic's DVCPRO HD but you have to make sure you go for the Broadcast edition. As soon as you starting working with it let me know what you think. I'm pretty sure you'll love it.

Here it is. Check the attachment to see a very flexible interface, at least in my case. Timeline on the left screen, monitors, bin and tools on the right. notice how everything is just one click away... :-)

I almost got the same setup as you Themis, but I also got the Vectorscope always opened for quick colour correction.

I loke to underscore what Themis already writen... I have worked in Premiere for 4-5 years and change to Edius this December. I still edit in SD but the speed in Edius with a videocard (I use DVX) is crazy... Most of my videos are with alot of colour correction and stabilazing plugins and exportime is realtime... thing that tock me 2-3 hours in Premiere to export take 20 minutes now.


Markus Nord

Mmm... Well, Markus, Edius is by far a much "lighter" software than Premiere - especially CS3 - but export time is a CPU thing. Are you sure that along with Edius you didn't also switch to a faster processor?

I did upgrade my CPU to, but still it's qiucker, sometime I move back to Premiere to fix some things that Edius can't handel and the export time in Preimere are longer that in Edius... thats what I experience anyway.
One thing that Edius are much better on then Premiere are colour correction, the quality is much better.

Markus

Could you please be more specific? :-) I have found a bunch of things that Edius CAN do and Premiere can't but not the other way around... I'd be glad to know them.

What I like about Edius is that absolutely everything happens much faster and easier. But I have to give a big credit to Premiere for its integration with After Effects and, mainly, Encore DVD. The incorporation of Encore CS3 inside Premiere Pro CS3, though, was, in my opinion, a punch under the waist.

I only worked up to Premiere Pro 1.5... But the things that I can't fined in Eduis that I used "alot" in Premiere is a transition that I made and use in manny productions. The thing that I can't do (I have not fund a way anyway...) in Edius is a crop and move the crop on a clip. I have fund crop but not how I can change how much the picture should be croped during a clip. a nother thing s that you wrote about how eazy premiere is to work with other Adobe programs (Photoshop, Illustrator and so on). I miss that... and Edius, without extra programs, it don't work that good with still photos and graphics.
that my point of view... mybe I missed some thing...


cheers for the chat
Markus

Does it need to be either/or?

I'm running Edius 4.5 and Vegas 7 (so far, I haven't seen the need to upgrade).

For straight editing, I like Edius. The play/record format works well for composing a story. I like the way Edius displays editing information (in/out/duration etc).

Other stuff just seems to lend itself to Vegas. I hate the way Vegas displays editing information.

I'll sometimes start a project in one and then decide that the other would be a better fit.

Markus. Edius uses 3D PIP to do a lot of things that motion or keyframed crop does in Vegas or Premiere. Edius also has a tool called Layout that can apply a crop/resize the image. In comparison to Vegas 8 or CS3, Edius 4.5 is a lot faster on the same machine. I have all three of these on my AMD Athlon X2 4200, a slow dual core by todays standards. Edius will output in realtime from the timeline to DV for most things something that neither CS3 or Vegas can do. One can mix any format on the timeline and change the project properties at will too. As an example mix HDV and DV and output both a HDV file and then change properties and output a DV file. As a video editor it is my choice, for audio, Vegas 8 and for titles CS3 still has the edge. I got CS3 for ability to author to multiple formats in Encore but have yet to do so and still prefer DVDLab Pro2 as an authoring program.

Ron Evans

Hi Ron... I'll try 3D PIP and se if in can do what I want. I tryed Layout to Crop, but I can't keyframe the crop there (not what I know of anyway...).
Thanks for the tip

Markus

Ah good, an Edius expert or two. I'm thinking of deserting Premiere for Edius but one thing I'd like clarified if possible.

At the moment I'm editing in SD and like the add-on Canopus 'Speed Controller' that allows me to vary the speed of a clip. So I can sine wave smoothly from 100% speed down to (say) 27% and back up to 100%. Looks wonderful. Of course I have to work on the audio a bit (generally keeping it at 100%).

My question is, can I do the same thing using Edius? Demos I've seen show 'nearly' the same thing but not quite, where speed reductions have to be counterbalanced by speed increases within the clip. Not what I want.

tom.

Hi Markus
Yes layout is not keyframable but 3DPIP will do what you want with keyframes. Anton's site http://www.videoproductions.com.au/h...equipment.html
or the Canopus Forum http://ediusforum.grassvalley.com/forum/ is a good place for information.
For Tom I have not used the Speed Controller so am not sure if it is currently the same as in Premiere CS3 for instance.

Ron Evans

What you're referring to, Tom, is an effect called "time remap" that allows you to change a clip's speed without affecting the video's total duration. You'll find it in Edius by right-clicking on the track and arrange adjustments accordingly.

By the way, one of the reasons for which I decided to give-up on Premiere as my main editing platform - because I still have to work with it in some of my freelance jobs - is the fact that it is not as easy-going or fast as Edius and I have to tell you, even with a properly set up system, the company's co-operation with Matrox and its video cards has - at least from my not so little experience - created more problems than it has solved. Integration, as I mentioned in a previous post, is a plus but I prefer editing in Edius and authoring in an older version of Encore DVD or creating effects with After Effects. Edius is - again in my opinion - a powerful, very underestimated and much less system resource-consuming tool.

What I do, Markus, is create the effect I want in After Effects with an alpha channel of course and then import it as a finished project to Edius. Surely, it is not the same as in Premiere where changes can easily be adjusted and re-imported from one program to another without any rendering required, but if you think about it, that's all integration really is. Actually I like to be flexible, not a "prisoner" of a certain editing package.

As for graphics, Inscriber has some plug-ins to Edius that might come in handy and that goes also for Edius's Quick Titler, that absolutely SUCKS!! (what were you, guys, in Canopus thinking of?) Try some of the features in Titlemotion and let me know what you think, Markus. It mainly does title work but has some limited advantages in importing or creating ICG files for motion graphics.

I'm not sure this is what I'm getting at the moment Themis. At the moment I'm gradually altering a clip's speed (making it smoothly go faster or slower). When I do this it does indeed alter the length of the clip, so if Edius does this 'without affecting the video's total duration' something doesn't quite stack up.

tom.

Well, check the following address, scroll down to time remap features and see for yourself on the official Canopus site. I, myself, use time remap all the time.

http://www.canopus.com/products/EDIU...ewfeatures.php

If you don't believe it you gotta see it for yourself. Find someone who has Edius and you'll believe it.

Thanks Themis. The link does indeed look good and the clip length doesn't seem to change. But I still can't get my (stupid) head around the maths - if I slow a central portion of a clip down (100% > 25% > 100%, say) then the overall length of the clip must surely lengthen, yes? Hit me.

Magic!!! Just kidding. It's weird, Tom, but it happens. Did you try it yourself on Edius or are you just confused? To tell you the truth I can't explain it myself. But I've done it a million times. I assume that the speed raise is probably counterbalanced by the speed reduction but it's true that this doesn't apply in all cases. You got me intrigued. I'll look into it and let you know.

Just for the record, check the following video link. Its duration was 4 secs 22 frames both before and after applying time remap. Sorry for the low quality, though...

Yes, I see your clip slows, then speeds up (to compensate?). I just want to slow gradually, then come back up again. Great for confetti sequences.

Well, you can do that with time remap in Edius should you learn how to use it. Actually it probably works that way. It compensates for slow speed and vice versa. It was a great help for me in editing video clips and commercials. Very impressive and... it does not affect clip duration, either... Otherwise, you can do it using the speed option (right click, also) in which case duration is certainly affected.

I've just put up a few seconds of a typical confetti-throwing here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pukXsJ0B6Y

It sine waves from 100% to 20% and back to 100%, hopefully pretty invisibly. But it sure lengthens the clip. Anyway, Edius is sure to be my next NLE, so thanks for your input.

tom.

So that's what you meant by "confetti throwing".. you're a wedding videographer... :-) you're there when everybody's constantly happy... really cool... I can't say that's always the case on a shooting stage or the editing rooms I've been in, so you're lucky from many perspectives :-)

Anyway, Edius is also good for weddings. Adorage has some great plug-ins for wedding videographers, they are called "prodad". Look them up. I'm sure they'll come in handy...