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-   -   disadvantages of fx1 (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/high-definition-video-editing-solutions/43215-disadvantages-fx1.html)

Yiannis Kall April 19th, 2005 03:26 AM

disadvantages of fx1
 
Hi
I would like to buy the sony fx1 camcorder. I read somewhere that has few disadvantages like autofocus problem and noise recording. I cant spend over 3500$ to buy other HDV camcorders. Now i have the sony trv70 which is normal dv camcorder which has problems too like autofocus. 3500$ is too much for me so i want to make sure that i will not have such problems with fx1.
Is it true the autofocus problem on fx1?
thanks

Heath McKnight April 19th, 2005 08:38 AM

I don't use autofocus, so I can't address that. I never noticed any noise in the recording, except for the HD10 from JVC, because it's a 1-ccd camera.

heath

Yiannis Kall April 19th, 2005 08:43 AM

not video noise but audio noise

Heath McKnight April 19th, 2005 08:50 AM

Didn't have that, either, including using the camera mic and hooking up an external via an XLR and 1/4 inch (I believe, or 1/8) adaptor.

heath

Mike Tiffee April 19th, 2005 09:13 AM

yes there are occasions where the auto focus is hunting and seems to take a long time to figure it out. but it's never been an issue or problem for me. I've done a lot of run-and-gun documentary stuff recently with it with very few issues.

audio sounds great. you will pick up some motor noise, but it's very, very low, but it's there.

To me, the biggest disadvantage of the camera is none of the above, but the HDV format and MPEG-2 compression. But it's what I got, I work with it, and love it. If I was unhappy with it, I would've sent it back long ago, but the pictures still blow me away.

Alex Raskin April 19th, 2005 09:19 AM

Mike, what's your workflow? Do you use Aspect HD/PPro 1.5.1 to edit the footage?

Mike Tiffee April 19th, 2005 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Raskin
Mike, what's your workflow? Do you use Aspect HD/PPro 1.5.1 to edit the footage?

My current workflow has been DV editing on my laptop. I've been on the road for the last 3 months- just got home yesterday and leave today for another week- so I haven't really setup anything for HDV editing as of yet. 3 months ago, I wasn't really impressed with any of the HDV editing options.

My future workflow will be editing directly off a P2 card in my G5 or G6 using FCP HD. <wink>

Alex Raskin April 19th, 2005 09:56 AM

Yes... I'm tempted by G5/FCP 5 too... it's just way off my usual Wintel-based path... I guess I'll stick with the PPro for now. Now, if only HD Link (Cineform's capture/converter utility) didn't glitch on capture, it'd be the day.

Sean M Lee April 19th, 2005 10:32 AM

Alex,
I think the glitch is hardware based. I had a similar problem that was diagnosed as Rambuss 800 being too slow. If you are using the purchased plug-in, my work around was to import m2t files from camera then convert the imported files...it makes a bit more work, but is less processor intensive...the results were very nice.

Alex Raskin April 19th, 2005 10:38 AM

Sean, well, the whole purpose of Aspect Hd to me is *not* to have to upgrade my hardware...

Workaround: Yes, I also capture m2t first with CapDVHS, then I fix GOP errors with Womble's tool, and only then do I Convert it using HDLink. It's OK, but of course I'd expect HDLink to do all that in one pass as it should...

Heath McKnight April 19th, 2005 10:42 AM

Hey all,

We're getting into editing territory. We have an excellent page on HDV editing here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=63

Thanks,

heath

Bjorn Moren April 19th, 2005 01:20 PM

Compression and noise
 
Heath and Mike: Funny how we all get different impressions of stuff. I've never seen any compression artifacts or image degradation at all from the HDV MPEG compression. As for image noise, it's there for sure if you look close enough. I've yet not seen a single segment without noise. But it's at an acceptable level i think.

Mike Tiffee April 19th, 2005 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bjorn Moren
Heath and Mike: Funny how we all get different impressions of stuff. I've never seen any compression artifacts or image degradation at all from the HDV MPEG compression. As for image noise, it's there for sure if you look close enough. I've yet not seen a single segment without noise. But it's at an acceptable level i think.

the image noise you're seeing is most likely from the MPEG compression. Most artifacts aren't noticable, you're right, but they're there.. you especially notice them when you effect or treat the video.

here are some screen grabs clearly showing artifacts. again, when played back on a 1080i monitor, they're very hard to see, and the image, YES EVEN FAST MOVING IMAGES, look fantastic.

http://www.miketiffee.com/hdv/sugarbowl1.jpg
http://www.miketiffee.com/hdv/sugarbowl2.jpg
http://www.miketiffee.com/hdv/sugarbowl3.jpg
http://www.miketiffee.com/hdv/sugarbowl4.jpg

Brandon Greenlee April 19th, 2005 03:09 PM

Awesome shots.

Being the incredible Auburn fan that I am - you wouldn't have any short clips of that game I could download do you?

It would be awesome to see some of it in hd(v).

Bjorn Moren April 19th, 2005 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Tiffee
the image noise you're seeing is most likely from the MPEG compression. Most artifacts aren't noticable, you're right, but they're there.. you especially notice them when you effect or treat the video.

here are some screen grabs clearly showing artifacts. again, when played back on a 1080i monitor, they're very hard to see, and the image, YES EVEN FAST MOVING IMAGES, look fantastic.

http://www.miketiffee.com/hdv/sugarbowl1.jpg
http://www.miketiffee.com/hdv/sugarbowl2.jpg
http://www.miketiffee.com/hdv/sugarbowl3.jpg
http://www.miketiffee.com/hdv/sugarbowl4.jpg

Mike, I dont think I mistake the mpeg compression artifacts for noise. Noise levels for the FX1 are so low that for zero gain shots of moving parts, I cant even see any in magnifications of my clips. But it is still there, and the evidence is to look for a stable shot of a big flat surface. When I play the clip the surface should look like a still image. The more clearly I can detect that it is a video as opposed to a still image, the more noise it is. If they look exactly the same = no visible noise. Such parts of a clip will not suffer from bad compression artifacts. For the price the FX1 is a magnificent piece of work, and dont mistake me for a critic of it. The noise levels are fully acceptable.

Thanks for the example images. I clearly see the blocks of compression artifacts. Slightly disappointing, but as you say probably not even noticable when played in motion. Perhaps the shots overloaded the maximum DVI bandwidth, and as a result the camera couldnt cope.


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