Software required to download HDV into PC
 

I just got the HDR-HC1. What are the software options required to download the HDV recording into PC that retains the HDV format? All I want to do is to play the recording in slow speed and zoom into certain parts of certain frames.

I tried to download it with the movie maker windows comes with and it lost a lot of resolution, probably converting the HDV into DV. I tried to download the Vegas trial version but the site won't let me do it.

Thanks in advance.

Dhruba Naug

You can use the Cineform app to capture (and convert to a less compressed intermediate codec), or check this thread out:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=47901

Kyle,

Thanks for pointing out the thread. Everything worked as listed in that page. However, I'm still having trouble playing the mpeg file in windows media player which is saying that it can't find some required codecs though the player is fully updated. What's the best way to play these mpeg files? I couldn't play the file in virtual dub (the editing freeware listed in that page) at normal speed. I would really appreciate some tips here.

Thanks.

Playing HDV-ts in DirectShow...
 

1/ As we are probably all aware, WMP does not do any decoding, but relies upon the DirectShow "architecture" as Microsoft loves to call its creations...

The problem is therfore mmultiple:
a/ Directshow can use only the "filters" ( another name which also encompasses the decoders, audio or video) which are registered on the machine.
b/ it seems very hard to understand, when multiple solutions are available, which one is selected by directshow.

From ther where do we go :
a/ Install some of the best (in quality / performance) MPEG2 demuxers and Decoders: I use alternatively MainConcept MPEG2 (probably free when you download and install their demo package). Or Elecard MPEG2.

b/ if you want to know more about which filterchain is used on your specific machine, i would suggest two solutions:
1/ Download MV2Player ( freeware Directshow player ) and check with the Filters panel what network of filters are used. Easy and instructive...
2/ More technically accurate and exiting is the usage of GraphEdit
http://www.digital-digest.com/dvd/do...hedit_141.html
This piece of software is part of the Directshow SDK and enables you to check the filterGraph used for any file, and to build alternate networks for testing the results.Fascitating and really mind-opening.

Hope this will prove helpfull

Pierre's recommendations are great. You may also want to check out Media Player Classic, which has MPEG 2 support built in. It understands both program and transport streams.

Glad the instructions on my site worked out for you.

-Lorin

Dhruba,

You'll also find VLC (it's free - just Google for it!!) very worthwhile as a player, live capture and transposing utility.

The only way you're going to be able to 'slow' and 'speed-up' any HD/HDV clips, is to edit them in a fully featured NLE. The most any software media player can do is 'jump' back or forward.

Even the 'zooming' you mention sounds pretty suspect without editing first in a fully featured NLE.

Remember that HDV is still new, so many software packages are constantly changing their capabilities to give better HD/HDV support. You should constantly check for updates...

Thanks everyone for all the tips.

I just reinstalled XP and now the media player is playing the MPEG file though very jerkily. Is it a memory issue? How much memory should you have for being able to decently play these MPEG files. I've 512 MB on my laptop. I'm now going to download the other MPEG players suggested here.

I also managed to download the Vegas Trial version but I've not managed to use the Capture Video button to download the recording though the program seems to be recognizing the devices. All the transport control buttons and capture video buttons remain grayed. I saw another thread about the same issue and none of those suggested fixes worked. Any ideas here?

Thanks once again.

You cannot capture using the trial version of Vegas. Unfortunately, you're quite limited in the editing side of HD/HDV m2t (MPEG2) with trial version/freeware/shareware programs - unless you convert your m2t video with Cineform's ConnectHD/AspectHD demo (which is time limited) to CFHD *.avi and import that into your trial version NLE (Vegas/Premiere Pro)

That's where VLC is such a good free program. It'll capture from the camcorder, stream from the camcorder for live preview, play-back video recorded from the camcorder and transpose video recorded from the camcorder.

What VLC can't do is edit video from the camcorder: i.e. cut/trim clips, colour adjust clips, add effects or transitions to clips, re-time clips, multi-layer clips or any really creative sorts of things that you may wish to do to your HD/HDV MPEG2 m2t's.

So; you may have to bite the bullet, and decide which NLE you will purchase. Either way Cineform's programs are a great addition regardless of whether you pick Premiere Pro or Vegas...

BTW, what speed processor is in your laptop? Unless it's a very highly configured machine, it'll have trouble keeping up with the data rate needed for smooth HD/HDV playback... RAM is not so important for playback, but CPU GigaHz and Hard Disk disk speed are. RAM is more important when editing your clips.

Thanks Steve.

I'm not planning on any major editing. I'm using the HDR-HC1 to video bee behavior and all I need to do is to be able to play it slow on a computer so that I can look for details when I spot something interesting. The initial trial recording I did has resolution that seems good enough for me and I hope I made the correct decision not going for the expensive XL2 which the salesman suggested to be more appropriate (with additional lenses) for doing close-up work.

I didn't know that the trial version of Vegas won't capture HDV, Sony should have mentioned that explicitly (unless they did and I missed it), such a waste of time.

My current laptop is a Pentium 4 running at 1.6 GHz. Actually, it would be great if you could give me suggestions and what kind of processor speed, RAM, hard disk size and speed and kind of monitor one should go for since I'll soon be buying a system dedicated for this.

I'm brand new to video recording, so some of my questions may sound really basic but I really appreciate everyone's help here, the tips have been invaluable to get me going. So, I hope I won't wear out everyone's patience here.

Thanks.

Dhruba: for doing anything meaningful with HDV footage you're going to want the fastest computer you can afford, like at least a 3.0 GHz dual-core desktop or a 3.4-3.6 GHz Pentium 4 laptop. As far as software is concerned, you'll need to spend at least a few hundred dollars for anything which can handle HDV effectively. It's tough to pick an editing package when you're just starting out, and you'll find that most people will tell you the one they use is the best. Any of the following might be good choices for what you want to do:

Adobe Premiere Pro with the Cineform Aspect HD plugin
Sony Vegas 6 + DVD combo
Pinnacle Liquid Edition 6
Canopus Edius Pro 3
Apple Final Cut Pro 5 running on a G5 desktop Mac

Isn't that a little much?
 

Wow, Kevin, all that may cost twice again what the camera cost! I'll take a different approach, and focus on Dhruba's comment "I'm not planning on any major editing. I'm using the HDR-HC1 to video bee behavior and all I need to do is to be able to play it slow on a computer so that I can look for details when I spot something interesting." So along those lines, here's my suggestions, using 100% free software and a less expensive machine.

You can get by with even a crappy 1 GHz machine if you're just stepping through frame by frame or playing back in slow motion. You'll want at least a 7200 RPM hard drive so you don't have buffer underruns (dropping frames) when capturing. Every contemporary drive sold today would do just fine. Altogether a 1 GHz machine running XP with a measely 384 megs of RAM is fine to get this job done. You will probably want a really large hard drive since HDV takes a gigabyte of space for every 5 minutes you capture.

To play captured footage back in real time you would want at least a 2GHz machine and a good video adapter. Check out the freeware Media Player Classic for a good simple playback program that doesn't tax the system nearly as much as Microsoft's own Media Player.

Anyway, first things first. Use this info to capture:

http://hdvforever.com/hdv/hdrhc1/freecapture/

Note at the bottom of the guide I included a little section on opening the footage in VirtualDub. Here's where it gets a little more interesting if you want to keep using free software. I suppose at this point you may be able to open directly using the trail version of Vegas and edit from there. But anyway, if you want to continue along the vein of freeware (which I feel for this purpose is every bit as effective as payware) then in VirtualDub you'll need to start a frame server going out to an AVISynth script that separates the interlaced fields. (Don't you hate having to deal with interlaced footage?) From there you open the AVISynth's .AVS file in another copy of VirtualDub and use Gunnar Thalin's "Deinterlace Smooth" filter. Here's an article I wrote that details these steps:

http://hdvforever.com/hdv/hdrhc1/to720p/

What you end up with is footage at 60 FRAMES per second. (Not fields!) This offers the most slow motion detail you can possibly get out of the HC1. I'll bet it will be great to analyze the dances those crazy bees do. What a fascinating insect, able to pinpoint nectar from just a few seconds of watching another bee's dance. And have you seen them fan the hive when it's hot by having a bunch of workers sit at one end and flap their wings, circulating the air through? Too bad they sting otherwise they would be my favorite insect.

Live free and enjoy!

-Lorin

Not really. You can go to either Dell or HP today and get a decent dual-core computer for as little as $1200 or so, then pay about $500-800 for a good HDV-capable editing package and have a real HDV processing setup for under $2000. If minimizing costs to a bare minimum is necessary then it's nice to know there are other options available, but if someone can't afford $2K to edit HD footage they're going to have to accept some serious compromises. At some point one's time and sanity are easily worth a modest $2K investment on top of the $2K cost of the camera, but granted this isn't just money you're going to find stuck in between the sofa cushions.

Can anyone here give me some ideas about how to do automatic panning (if I may call it that)? I've detailed the exact problem in the Open DV forum and I haven't got an answer yet. So I thought I would point the helpful people here to the post (without actually cross posting :)).

Thanks.

Never have heard of the Open DV forum. But then I'm pretty green around here, too. Could you post a link?

Ultimately are you talking about (A) grabbing a moving subset of the larger HDV frame, or (B) controlling a motorized tripod mount?

-Lorin

Can you help me please.
I did the first step, create the frame server
but then when i open with virtualdub the *.avs files it says ''Avisynth open failure: AviFileSource:couldnt open file

thanks

Troubleshooting AVISource open failure / couldn't open file
 

This error message will come up if you don't have exactly the proper path or filename for the .VDR file, so first things first, make absolutely sure you've got that part right.

When you're creating the signpost file in VirtualDub, it asks about two different filenames. The first is just a name unique to the frameserving engine itself. It defaults to be the same as the source file, something like "050729190042.mpg". You can actually put in whatever you want there as long as it's a unique name compared with anything else also being frame served on the system. Heck, you could call that part "testing.123" and it would work.

The second filename is the important one where it asks for the actual .VDR file being saved. And that's the part that matters for the AVISynth script. So if you put in "C:\test.vdr" then your AVISynth script should be:

AVISource("c:\test.vdr").AssumeTFF().SeparateFields()

Once you've started the frame server, nowhere in the little VirtualDub frameserving window do you see the actual VDR filename itself, but it's really listening for any reference being made to that .VDR file and spouting out the appropriate AVI type information, fooling the other app into thinking it's a real AVI file sitting on the disk. (Hope that all makes sense!)

If you're absolutely, absolutely sure that you've got the right path and filename then there's some strange things happening with your AVISource filter. You can alternatively try changing "AVISource" to "AVIFileSource". But I think it actually uses the same call with either one. Using "OpenDMLSource" or "DirectShowSource" should not actually work for stuff being frame served from VirtualDub, but you can try it. Those work just fine with other AVI files, but not VDR stuff.

Another option is to see if you've got the newest stable version of AVISynth, which at the moment is available on SourceForge here:

http://sourceforge.net/project/showf...ckage_id=72557

Hope this helps. Let me know if you still have issues!

-Lorin

thanks for your reply, i will try it again

Lorin,

I'm talking about a motorized mount. Please find the details in the link below. Thanks for your interest.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=48563

Lorin, what you've posted is really useful, the 1080i to 720p page caught my attention. What I'm wondering is do you know of a way in vDub to rescale from 1080i to 576i/480i, ie standard def, retaining the normal field signature of the original interlace footage?

What I'm thinking is for editing HDV footage offline at DV quality which would mean we can use our existing DV cardesand monitors for offline editing before going to online. However the process I've worked out to so far only works for non-interlaced footage (with the Z1Us that means CF25 which I know is not really progressive but can be treated as if it was by VirtualDub.)

Filter to get to 4:2:2 NTSC or PAL
 

You can use this AVISynth script now, but it compromises the vertical resolution slightly. Still works pretty well:

x=AviSource("C:\frameServe.vdr").AssumeTFF().SeparateFields()
Interleave(x.SelectEven().BicubicResize(960,480).Crop(120,1,-120,0),x.SelectOdd().BicubicResize(960,480).Crop(120,0,-120,-1))
BicubicResize(720,240).ComplementParity().Weave()

This is to be used with an MPG opened with VirtualDubMod and then frame served.

A better option is a payware VirtualDub filter I'm working on now for that exact purpose. The goal is to retain all the resolution possible while also maintaining perfect interlacing. The result is better than DV because the color space ends up at around 4:2:2.

Beta will be available soon that adds a small logo in the lower right, and the payware version will go for $20. It's very straightforward because you can just open the MPG and drop this filter in, getting 4:2:2 standard def in one of these three formats:

* cropped
* letterboxed
* anamorphic

Any DV filter or tool can be used from there in the workflow.

I'll keep ya posted.

-Lorin

Thanks Lorin, Keep us posted on the plug-in, I'll be looking out for the PAL version.

Filters - Resize - Check interlaced box.

I've tried this but it always seems to mung the fields up, it doesn't seem very reliable and when it does seem to do it there is an unnacceptable jitter on screen.

What would be really great is if someone could come up with an internal bob deinterlace filter for vDub and a weave re-interlacer.

Lorin, would there be the possibility of some sort of academic license for your filter?

Definitely does. The bob effect is why I had started down this road. The AVISynth script I provided will work in that it doesn't botch the fields, creating that bob effect. But (as the VirtualDub and other resize filters do) it compromises on vertical resolution. Hence the reason for this filter, intended for those people out there like myself who are perfectionists when it comes to video conversion. Since the destination (SD) has comparatively much fewer pixels, every pixel counts and must be properly calculated.


I hope that $20 is affordable, but am willing to extend a $10 version for those buying 10 or more, hoping that would benefit those using it in a classroom setting. Those bulk licenses, while transferrable, would have to remain property of one organization and not resold individually.

Those purchasing the filter would be entitled to any future enhancements of that core functionality. I have on the radar for instance an enhancement to convert 1080i to 720p. Not feasible inside of VirtualDub itself due to the filter architecture there, but it could be set up as a standalone frameserver product or in other environments such as Avid and Premiere. But that is coming down the road.

My apologies to Chris if this goes overboard in terms of marketing a product in a newsgroup post. I'm hoping that by posting the AVISynth script solution that there is still merit in keeping this content!

-Lorin

Give this a shot and let us know if it works for you.

Video - Filters - ViewFields - Resize - UnViewFields

For Viewfields and UnViewFields
http://www.geocities.com/siwalters_uk/fnews.html

And when you check "Interlaced" on resize, which resize filter are you using?

Kyle,

It's wierd, but checking the interlace box seems to work now. I don't understand it, DV clips that yesterday had misaligned fields, today are playing perfectly well. I can only assume that the matrox cards are somehow automatically interpreting the fields in random ways (which is worrying but no fault of VirtualDub)

I gave it another go and was going to try using swap fields and such (which hadn't worked before), but now, a basic bicubic =-100 resize does the trick, with no noticable bob effect, though I should make it clear I'm watching on the university's rather impecunious set up, (ie cheap combo TVs instead of broadcast monitors for viewing PAL output) but what I did pick up was a noticable softening. I saw the same softening when I resized CF25 material, a frame resize was sharper (rather too sharp in fact with noticable aliasing) than an interlaced scale, though in both cases you'd end up with a progressive image.

I have to say I get very nervous when problems fix themselves, I never know when they'll decide to get unfixed again.

I'll try the view/unview fields filter and see what difference that makes, certainly it looks good from the test I've done on my office desktop.

Thanks Kyle.

Glad it works for you now.

Bicubic and Bilinear will give a softer picture. Try a comparison between those and Lanczos3. You should find Lanczos to be much sharper. See if that gives the effect you are looking for.