Airline transportation
 

Leaving aside issues of potential theft, what are people's views on wrapping the lens, eyepiece, camera body, etc individually in tons of bubblewrap, burying them deep between jumpers, socks and underwear, then checking it as hold luggage on a transatlantic flight, adorned with 'Fragile' labels, of course?

I'm just a bit concerned that my Portabrace is about three inches bigger in every dimension than the carry on allowance for Virgin Atlantic passengers in any class.

Am I being a complete twat-head (as we so quaintly say over here) even thinking about it?

Guidance (and a stern talking to) welcomed.

Thanks,

Ian . . .

As long as you don't mind going to Milan to collect it :-)

Seriously though, that's a big risk for the camera body and the lens. I've carried tripods and other accessories in hold baggage without incident, but have seen luggage quite badly damaged on a single trip.

I've not moved camera gear this way but have frequently moved other very valuable and fragile goods checked into the hold. I have had checked luggage lost no less than 6 times though (mostly in America, once in Holland, once in Brazil and once in China). However, I always, eventually, got it all back within about 2-4 days, totally intact. I've more luck than most I suspect!

The inconvenience of this is why most of the (literally) 1 million miles I've flown, mostly long haul, the last 7 years has been with hand baggage only.... whenever possible. That's what hotel laundry service is for.

If you're flying out to do a shoot and your camera arrives a few days after you it will not be much fun. I really think you need to find a carry on solution for the critical item(s).

PS. Against my advice, my wife took an expensive china dinner service to Canada last year packed the way you describe and, almost unbelieveably, it all arrived without a single chip! Like I said, we're lucky!
PPS. I remember in India I was on the plane waiting to disembark and watching the ground staff throw big heavy bags to each other, and drop a few on the concrete.....

Hmmm . . . food for thought.

Up until about seven years ago I was a very frequent flier (in the year 2000 I 'enjoyed' 223 flights, according to our business travel agents at the time. In the ten years I was travelling I had my baggage lost just once (and found within 24 hours) in the States and cut open once (and a load of dodgy CD's taken - serves me right) in Japan.

But this isn't the time to get cocky! Like you, mostly I travelled with carry on only.

I suppose what I could do is pack the PortaBrace in a large suitcase and carry the key camera components in a smaller bag in the cabin. At least that way I don't turn up at the client's offices with a camera in a Waitrose carrier bag!

Thanks for helping me think straight, gents.

Ian . . .

I have carried my XL2 with most of my accessories in a Lowepro Lens Trekker as a carry on luggage. It’s a gamble… I almost got stuck in Melbourne ‘cause too much hand luggage.

But the good thing with XL2 it that you can split it up and carry it in a much smaller bag, if you pull the VF and lens of … you should be able to get this is a bag not much bigger then a ladies handbag. That’s what I’m gonna do on my next fight.
You can even unscrew the shoulder pad and make it even smaller… I don’t use my shoulder pad at al… mostly ‘cause it don’t fit in my UW housing, but I don’t screw it on for “on land film”.


Markus

Good advice. I think that's what I'll be doing. Thanks for everyone's feedback and suggestions.

Pelican cases are how I roll. I've shipped/checked tons of stuff in pelican cases, from mac computers with 23" displays to multiple pack studio strobe setups for my photography business. You can actually find on carry-on compatible (size-wise) roller pelican cases. I can't remember the exact number right off the top of my head, but I bet if you go to B&H and search for "pelican carry-on" you'll find it. Get the ones with the foam inserts, take 10 minutes to customize the foam to your camera and accessories, and you're set.

I carry my XH-A1, Wide Converter, Charger, Extra Batteries and Headphones in a Pelican 1500 that I use purely for car transport. I wasted some space in the foam and I could have been a bit more efficient with that part, but it's protected well (with a couple of inches on each side for shock resistance) and won't get bumped, shattered, wet or dirty during transport.

Yep Trevor, I've got the Pelican 1510, is the largest legal carry-on they advertise.

But these days I'd check with your carrier and their weight limits. With the A1 plus accessories, mine totals 9kg. Written on the side is a good way to check the airline scales. But tread carefully if you find differences, some checkins don't like it. Look humble.

I've had some get me to power the cam up to make sure it's not a bombe, keep a battery handy. Look insulted.

The only con is, the gear inside locked Pelicans is not resistant to temperature variations. Found this out the hard way, sweltering day on a trip inside a car trunk. Let the temperature stable before turning the cam on. Look relieved.

Oh and position the cam at the hinges side so with the Pelican standing upright the weight is at the bottom. And you'll find some overstocked sellers will discount bright oranges ones. That says here I am thieves..look. Look foolish.

Cheers.

Why do people seem to always use the word, "literally" just before a phrase that is clearly hyperbole?

It's not an exaggeration, it's actually true. All I was doing was trying to help Ian out. That statement was simply to point out that I do have a lot of potentially relevant experience.....

So, Jack, have you actually got anything to add to this thread which might help Ian - rather than just trying to insult others that attempt to?

More to the point, unclear as to why it's hyperbole?

It's quite possible to fly a million miles in seven years.

For several years I spent one week in Columbus, OH or Stamford, CT, one week in the UK, one week in Europe, South America or Asia, then a week in the UK again before starting the cycle once more. While I was in the US I also travelled internally a fair bit. I very often flew >20,000 miles in a month. I did this for around three years but was a heavy traveller for around ten.

By that reckoning I have also (literally) flown at least a million miles.

Andy, your post was useful. Jack, sorry, not sure how yours helped.

Coming back to the topic in hand, I spoke to Virgin Atlantic today and told them that my PortaBrace was just slightly bigger than the carry on allowance. They said it was 'at the check-in clerks discretion'. I have managed to make it smaller by taking things out of the side pockets and pulling the eye-piece protector out (I will replace it before stowing!) and now I reckon it's only about an inch oversize in all directions. In fact, their stated policy (which gives H,W and D dimensions) appears to be different from the actual policy which gives a limit of 115cm when adding all dimensions together. That way I am only a couple of cm over budget.

I'm going to take a chance and practice looking humble/insulted/relieved etc as Allan suggests!

Hi Ian. I've carried on an XL2 in a Lowepro Nature Trekker II bag. I think it's acceptable in most long-haul aircraft, but have to admit it's a tight squeeze to get the XL2 in safely. You need to remove the lens and viewfinder and pack everything carefully.

Richard

I fly quite a bit. As a matter of fact I head up to Milwaukee on Monday. I use a Tamrac rolling strongbox. I completely disassemble the Canon XL2 and pack it in there. It has lots of adjustable padding. I travel with the Canon XL2, 20x and 3x lens, wireless mics, all accessaries and a small still camera. Never had a problem taking it as carry on. Tripod, cloths etc all go cargo. I can always get new cloths or even a tripod if needed, replacing the Canon and lens would not be fun. I live in Atlanta and have seen to many bags get trashed coming up the baggage ramp.

In the end I called Virgin who were non-committal ("depends on the person checking you in").

I decided to take the risk.

At the airport, no-one looked at my PortaBrace which was clearly a little larger than the allowance. At security no-one batted an eyelid. On the aircraft no-one gave me a second glance.

Now, all I have to do is repeat that on the return journey . . .

I know I'm coming in a bit late to the discussion for you, Ian, but here's my $.02:

I've traveled a few hundred thousand miles the last two years, all carrying my XL2 in a Portabrace CTC-3. It's the largest you can carry on and pack in the overhead. Best thing about it, is I don't have to break anything down (like you have to with the Pelican). I keep one battery attached to the camera (in case they want me to turn it on) and the others I put tape over the connectors and put them in Zip-Loc bags according to the rules. Then I put all my tapes, lav mics...everything I need for a shoot into the bag and i'm good to go. That way if my checked bags are lost, I can still do my work and get paid.

You can always buy clothes somewhere, but it's a hell of a time finding a camera to use.

BTW, there's other threads on this subject if you do a search. I'm to lazy to put a link in right now.

Jonathan

I'm not answering as a lawyer, but as someone with nearly 9,000 posts on FlyerTalk.com (a great resource for airline and travel information).

Never, ever, ever, ever place valuables in checked luggage. Never. Ever.

Airline liability is extremely limited for lost or damage contents in luggage, and electronics and photo equipment is excluded by the Conditions of Carriage of virtually every carrier.

There are two major vulnerabilities to which checked luggage is exposed: (1) in the U.S., TSA can, and will, open luggage at their whim, and (2) baggage handlers, who will "supplement" their meager income with goodies from passengers' luggage. This results in lots of finger pointing when things go missing or get destroyed -- TSA blames the airline, the airline blames TSA, and no one winds up liable.

If you MUST ship equipment, pack in appropriate containers, e.g. a Pelican case, insure it, and, preferably, ship it as air cargo. I'm sure there will be a long line of posts from people saying, "I've packed iMax cameras in an old duffel bag wrapped with underwear and socks and they've arrived just fine," but I will defer to the experiences of the 170,000 members of FlyerTalk, virtually all of whom are frequent fliers, on this. "Fragile" stickers mean nothing -- first, you're assuming that TSA TSOs and baggage handlers can read. In my experience, that assumes a lot. Second, you're assuming that TSA TSOs and baggage handlers care; many will view your "Fragile" sticker as a personal challenge.

If you can't carry it on, pack it properly, insure it, ship it by air cargo or, if you absolutely must check it, don't just bury it with your briefs. And, if it's not in your personal possession the entire time, have contingency plans in place so that you don't find yourself on location without your gear. I am only a lowly amateur, and I always carry-on my gear, regardless of where I fly in the world. I can't imagine a pro trusting his or her livelihood to either TSA or the airline baggage handlers.

Edited to add:

Two other points:

Though carry-on rules are rather liberal with respect to weight in the U.S., they are strictly enforced by some carriers in other countries. Don't assume that was is a legal carry-on in the U.S. will be permitted overseas.

Particularly in the U.S., but in other countries as well (China, where I am right now, comes to mind), carry-on space is at a premium. In the U.S., those with elite status on an airline board first specifically to grab the overhead bin space. Those who board later in the process frequently have to "gate check" carry-on bags. This is the worst of all worlds as, frequently, gate-checked bags won't even make the flight and, when they do, they are the last bags that are, literally (yes, Jack, "literally" ;)), thrown into the hold.

Why in the world would you want to let your expensive gear out of your sight, at the mercy of baggage handlers? I don't fly alot, but the few times that I do I've almost always been shocked by the condition my checked luggage arrives in:zippers broken, luggage scraped, contents rummaged through without any attempt to be neat. On one occaision I found my tripod, which I had packed rolled up in clothes, on top of the clothes. I cannot imagine what they would do with my camera gear.

Even carry on is not safe from "inquisitive" security people but at least they are doing it in your presence and you can get name/badge numbers if things get out of control.

At the International airport in my city, last year baggage handlers were caught re-handed THROWING baggage clearly marked as Fragile SEVERAL feet up into the air and allowing it to crash to the concrete. My understanding is that they were reprimanded but continue to work at the airport. Your call. I'd rather remove the temptation WHEN I CAN.

<duplicate>

Hang on to it
 

Keep the camera with you, keep the camera with you, keep the camera with you. That's the mantra. Never, everr let the camera stray from your sight. It is your livelihood. You can check the tripod and aux gear, but not the camera, and still survive when you get on the ground.

I carry two cameras, my main unit, a Z7, and a backup, an A1U, plus lights, batteries, mics, cables etc. I do it in two bags. One is a Strut, made by former Porta Brace guys in Vermont. It is specifically designed to fit in the overhead. I can fit a the camera, with Matte Box attached, wireless and shot gun mics, cables, three NP970 batteries, tape, CF Cards, tool kit on the Strut.

I use a second bag, a Tarmac Strongbox, to carry the smaller camera, two LitePanels, a mini and a Micro and chargers. One final item is a three pound Stedibag with a shoulder strap incase the Tripod doesn't make it. Both the bags are black, look like standard hand luggage, not identifiable as camera gear, which helps me keep a low profile.

All sound advice. In the end I successfully carried the Portabrace (with camera) in the cabin (although on the return journey I did have to turn on the charm a little as the check-in clerk was a tad hesitant).

To all those who advised against putting it in hold luggage . . . of course - totally sensible advice. What was I thinking?!

To those who advised looking at other threads - I did actually do this, but those that I found looked a little out of date and I really wanted current guidance.

Thanks again to all.

We use this Kata bag when we are air travelling:
Video bags camera bags Kata - Manufacturer of camera bags
The camera we use it for is either an Ikegami DV7 DVCAM or a Sony XDCAM 530.
As soon as we have to prepare for a flight, we take the lens and viewfinder apart from the body, wrap them in foam or bubblewrap and convert the bag to the smaller proportion.
When we arrive at our destination, we convert the bag to its bigger size again whivh has enough room for the completely assembled camera, complete with battery.
The trolley is also a very handy feature on large international airports where you often have to take a long walk for your connecting flight.

Cheers and good luck.
robbert-jan

That's a nice looking bag. Sadly, it blows the carry on allowance for British Airways, American Airlines, and Virgin Atlantic, even using the smaller dimensions.

I found this article which I thought was extremely useful and interesting. Note that it was originally printed in 2004 but was updated in November 2008.

Airline Luggage Allowance Policies and Guidelines

Basically, it all boils down to:

1. The airline's policy
2. The airport
3. The aircraft
4. How full the flight is
5. Where you sit on the plane
6. The person checking you in (how generous they are/what mood they're in)
7. Whether you are prepared to risk having your gear taken from you and put in hold luggage if it doesn't meet the criteria.

So, not too many variables there, then!?! It seems that there is no guaranteed and foolproof solution to the dilemma of how to transport larger cameras.

When I came back from CDG Paris in October there were two cameramen with large padded pro shouldermount cameras who just carried their gear through security and on to the plane - no bags, no nuffin'. The sound guy at least had his stuff in a bag. In the queue they had a quick discussion as to what their story would be if they were asked any awkward questions. They got through without apparent difficulty.

Ah, but what if they had been refused? Then they would have been royally screwed!!

Some UK Hand Baggage Dimension Information
 

Just to add some information. Possibility of me doing a big corporate shoot in Dublin early in the New Year so I've been studying how I'd get my EX3 into the cabin with me (no way it's going in the hold!). I don't fancy the drive to Hollyhead and Ferry to Ireland in my car as the Irish sea can be rough at this time of year!

Ryan Air (Stansted to Dublin) baggage allowance is only 20 x 55 x 40cm
BMI (e.g. from LGW) 23 x 55 x 40cm + e.g. laptop bag for the MBP as well
BA (e.g. from LHR) is 25 x 55 x 45cm + e.g. laptop bag for the MBP as well

It so happens I can get my EX3 in a fairly typical Samsonite carry on roller bag if I take the fragile Sony microphone holder off (2 screws in 2 minutes...I never use it anyway). It fits snuggly and nicely between the two internally raised bits that surround and protect the contents from the externally extending handle. Looks almost made for the job. I'll post a pic soon. I can surround it all in socks/bubble wrapp etc and still have enough room for Rode NTG-3 in it's WS7, spare batteries, headphones, charger etc., SxS/KxS/KxT etc. and the total maximum bag dimensions will then be 24 x 55 x 40 cm, maybe 25 x 55 x 40cm if I add the amount of bubble wrap I'd like.

It's not the most ideal camera bag(!).....but does have quite a few extra pockets etc. My Petrol roller bag (PWR-HDV) that my EX3 normally lives in is way too big for these allowances. The Libech LS37 tripod will have to take it's chances and go in the hold in it's bag (ironically it's previous owner was in Ireland!)

Looks like it has to be BA then, or if I'm feeling brave BMI. Ryan Air won't get any of my money, even though Stansted is only 40 minutes away.

Edit: OK, here are some pics. 1st is of the Petrol bag and others show EX3 in Samsonite bag. Obviously, I've not removed the mic holder or packed it as it would travel but this shows just how much useful room is still available for the ancillaries and you did not want to see my socks anyway! BTW, my bag lock security code is not 0 0 0, I'm far too smart to leave it on what it was for everyone to see! Also, I don't know the Samsonite Bag model number or I'd post it. I bought it in Hong Kong about a year ago (it's a legit Samsonite.)

I have to say I seldom encounter any trouble when it comes to carry on cameras.
Most airlines are less strict when it comes to camera bags as they do understand that a camera can´t be sent in normal luggage.
I mostly travel with broadcast cameras in Portabrace or Petrol bags and I have always managed to get it in the overhead compartment..
I travel out from Norway, and I mostly travel in Europe, but I traveled overseas as well.

I would actually recommend to use a camera bag and not a "normal" suitcase

OK, thanks for the info. Sounds promising!

I've done a heck of a lot of air travel but never before 'as a cameraman' so this is all new territory for me. My EX3 will also fit in my other Petrol camera bag, a PCCB-2N, it's a little bit of a tight squeeze with the viewfinder on the EX3 but that does just about meet BA dimensions. I'll look seriously again at that. I do think my main EX3 Petrol roller bag (the PWR-HDV mentioned above) would be way too big though and risk being an issue but your experience suggests I might get away with it.

Anyone else got any European experience to share in this area and specifically maybe with this bag?

I fly internationally A LOT with gear. I ALWAYS carry on the camera.

Here are a few points:

1. Fly a regular airline. Earn mileage points and status. This will help with carrying on extra or oversize gear. Know the plane you will fly in. Be prepared to kiss some backside to get it on the plane.

2. Don't take to much gear. I have gotten my travel kit down to a very small package. When you carry on your camera don't be afraid to go up to the people at the gate ahead of time and ask for help in getting the camera on the plane. If they think you are trying to sneak the camera on they will not be helpful. Act like a professional!!!

3. Try to get on the plane early if possible. When you earn status on an airline you get to board early and make sure that the gear is packed safely before the "tourists" get on board.

4. In a pinch i have thrown out the line "this camera is a professional piece of equipment that costs tens of thousands of dollars (or euros, or pounds). I am responsible for it and I need your help in making sure that it gets on the plane and doesn't get damaged." This works every time.

Daniel Weber

Check this out. It is a Tamrac 5551 rolling strongbox.

Sony EX3 in Petrol PCCB-2-N Airline Carry On Bag
 

Thanks Bob. I've looked at that (and the 5552 model) and yes they fit most sensible European carry on maximum dimensions but at only 17cm depth internally and with a rigid plastic outer shell I suspect no way will an EX3 squeeze into them - anyone tried it? Also, Thanks Daniel, good points and well understood (I'm Platinium or Silver with most large carriers already due to my previous career involving 150,000+ miles travel a year )

I now have my EX3 carry on solution for British Airways or BMI (Ryan Air will still not be getting the pleasure of my presence!)

Fiddled around with my Petrol PCCB-2-N and I can get my EX3 in it nicely as long as I take the Sony Mic holder off. With all the critical gear (but not my MBPro which will go in a separate laptop bag) it's maximum external dimensions are 24cm (easily squeezable to 23cm, but no way to 20 cm!) x 55 x 33 cm. It's 2.54cm to an inch BTW for those of us who are non-metric.

Pictures below. As luck would have it I tried to sell this bag here on DVinfo a while ago (unsuccessfully!) so it's been used to lug all my sound gear around until now.

I've removed all the supplied internal partitions from the PCCB-2-N and added two 'pockets' that were supplied with my Petrol PWR-HDV Roller bag to 'cossette' the EX3 and all looks nice.

Bag contains EX3 with Manfrotto slide plate still attached to it's base, Charger, Spare Battery(s), Sony Monitor Headphones in pouch, Rode NTG-3 inside WS7 and with Rode Suspension mount, Rode pouch containing short XLR lead and NTG-3 foam windshield, various SxS and SDHC cards, Zoom H2 in a pouch (there won't be room for the Fostex FR2-LE on these trips!). I should easily be able to get my Sennheiser G2 radio mic kit in there as well wrapped in a small protective pouch as well as spare AA batteries etc. etc.

Sorry for hijacking this thread a bit and my focus on EX3 carry on baggage for European Airlines but I'm sure someone else out there will be going through similar thought processes and the info here should help.

I'll let the thread return to a more general theme now!

I totally agree with Daniel. I use the normal Portabrace bag, which, admittedly, does not even remotely meet carry-on status. Every time I get on the plane, it is somewhat of a risk, so I take a few steps to lessen the danger:

1. I try to fly on airlines where I have priority boarding. Failing that, I take a hit and ask for a seat at the rear, so I'm the first to load after the high mileage passengers, and have a better chance for an overhead slot.

2. I will schmooze the gate agent when I arrive at the gate, and let them know I've got a mega-bucks camera, and ask if they could they find it in their hearts to let me board right after the priority passengers. It works most of the time. It works even better if they are a fan of the network/show/company you're shooting for.

3. The biggest risk in the US is getting booked on a regional jet or turboprop with the itty bitty overheads. In these cases, I will take the camera out of the Portabrace, and load it naked into the overhead, sitting on a nice cushion of pillows and blankets. Only once have I had to take off the viewfinder to get a full dockable Betacam or an HDCam to fit in the little overheads.

I have a fellow shooter who believes the Portabrace bag just says "Steal Me!" in an airline terminal situation. He uses something like the Kata bag (a carry-on size roller bag), but it requires him to fully disassemble the camera, lense and viewfinder each time. After pulling my viewfinder connector a few times over the years, I have a much higher fear of eventually breaking the connector from regular assembly/disassembly than I do of having the bag stolen.

Atho I have to admit, there have been times when the roller bag would have been nice...especially now that I have to carry on all my Lithium Ion battery bricks.

Pelican cases rule, fragile stickers are worthless and LITERALLY encourage bag smashers to toss um further :) insure everything for full value. we always get a carnet too, like a passport for your gear for foreign travel. i have seen video crews denied permission to bring their gear into a country without a carnet. the flip side; smart thieves at BAX global used my carnet to decide which items were the most expensive and stole um from my fancy pelican cases which were fortunatly covered by my poor insurance company. i got stuck with the deductable of course, ah the glamour of business travel :)

totally agree with carrying on the camera if possible. the irony there seems to be the better your carry on case the more they want you to gate check it vs show up at the gate with just a camera without a case and everyone gets that this guy can't gate check it and thus you get a pass to carry it on. wacky airplane fun :)