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-   -   Anyone as crazy about Jibs as I am? (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/jibs-cranes-booms/34325-anyone-crazy-about-jibs-i-am.html)

Rob Kroeger November 1st, 2004 11:27 PM

Anyone as crazy about Jibs as I am?
 
Hows it going all. As some may know, I work at a TV News Station and I do a lot of in-studio shoots. We have a 9-foot Jimmy Jib Triangle, with a Sony BVP9500WS mounted to it, and a pan-tilt head. I dont think I've ever had so much fun in my life. Using the jib is so much fun, I'll spend hours getting some creative shots.

For example, for a commercial closing shot I'll have it already zoomed in on the talent, then I'll zoom it out at a very fast speed, and fly the arm around behind the cameras, and then settle it in the corner of the studio, where you can see a glimpse of the control room.

Im just wondering if anyone else has had any previous jib experience, and I was wondering what techniques you use to get your shots.

Take it easy.

James Emory November 1st, 2004 11:43 PM

Howdy Rob. I've got a Jimmy Jib Lite for camera systems 20 lbs and below now that I have a new heavier duty head. All I can say is practice all the time. There are so many different combinations of moves that can be done with these things. The more you do it, the more moves you can come up with.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=24436

Rob Kroeger November 1st, 2004 11:58 PM

Awesome shots James, thats quite the jib. As you can imagine the jibs not mine however I'll get some pics of it and some of the shots I do.

One of the coolest shots I've ever done was actually a complete accident. If you want a faster-style shot, Zoom the camera OUT while pushing the jib FORWARD, or vice versa, at about the same speed. Although this effect doesnt do much for every jib application out there, its great for concerts, commercial-block closers, or just an all-out cool thing to watch.

It might not show up so 'cool' on the monitor, you might have to tape it and watch it over a few times.

James Emory November 2nd, 2004 12:05 AM

I believe that shot you are describing is called vertigo, where the background seems to compress in real time behind the subject. You can actually do that hand held if you time it just right. It is a damn cool in camera effect. However there is an inherent problem doing it with a jib because of the arc. The longer the reach the more of a sustained head on approach you can get for a shot like that. Another shot I like is when you boom in, zoom in as well or do the opposite. The speed of the move is hugely exaggerated by the compound motion.

Rob Kroeger November 2nd, 2004 12:14 AM

Very true. I think what makes all good jib-shots good are use of compound motions. What I'm not a big fan of is Dutch Tilt, like on some of the arms. Its a cool effect no doubt, I guess im just not a huge fan of it.

Another thing I love to do is crank the tilt and pan speed up, so I can do a quick "South-West" move. For example. at the end of a newscast at 11pm, lets say, when theres not a lot of viewers, I'll coast it about 4 feet over the top of the studio camera \\ teleprompter hood, and pull that fast "South-West" pan and tilt like I said above, to get a shot of whats on the prompter. I find it very fun to mess around with the jib. I think its one of the most rewarding parts of filming.

Ed Liew November 3rd, 2004 07:49 PM

have always wanted to get a jimmyjib lite but the cost of a new set is just too high to start with. any used set for sale?
and indeed an awesome work, james.

ed

James Emory November 3rd, 2004 09:22 PM

Ed. That jib lite system is only 6200.00. The tripod is an additional 650.00 but well worth it because it fits and is safety tested. That total is just a little bit more than an XL-2. The dolly is an additional 2800.00 and is not necessary but very convenient. You can do all the moves that the Triangle can do with the jib lite. You just can't fly systems above 20 lbs, safely that is. If you get one, you won't regret it.

Ed Liew November 4th, 2004 08:33 PM

james,
6,200 converted to our currency is about 25,000 and still not inclusive of shipping cost. have been on the look out for a used set for sometime now. with that kind of money, i can wait ;)

ed

James Emory November 4th, 2004 09:16 PM

Ooh. I didn't realize that factor. Well, maybe you out to consider making your own arm and buy just a remote head. Stanton, the maker of the Jib Lite and Varizoom offer remote head kits that can be attached to anything. However, I think that Varizoom is going to be the most cost effective.


Jimmy Jib
www.jimmyjib.com

www.jimmyjib.com/remotehead.html


Varizoom
www.varizoom.com/pages/mc100.php



Ed Liew November 8th, 2004 09:31 AM

i was considering cameraturret jib with remote head (ever heard of them? www.camraturret.com). i was thinking of taking up their offer of dealership to sell their product over here. its a good offer but the profit margin is not that high. i'm still looking.

ed

David Bermejo November 10th, 2004 06:21 PM

Nice Jib shots! I am crazy about Jib arms and camera booms. As-a-matter-of-fact, i am in the process of building one at work. I am going to design my own cable driven pan/tilt head. heck of a lot of work, but worth it....


JIBS ARE AWESOME!!!!

Rob Kroeger November 10th, 2004 06:27 PM

Rock On!! I want to build a jib or even buy one but if it doesnt have a pan-tilt head I just cant deal with it. Its gotta have some sort of electronic head or pully system.

Let me know how the design goes, I'd love to use some ideas to make one myself.

David Bermejo November 10th, 2004 07:00 PM

I built the main "shaft", out of a sign pole, "b-line". And took the wheel off a castor and used that as the main boom pan/tilt. I used another tube to level the camera mount, almost like the cable you see on some jibs to level the mount. All i have left to do is make a tripod out of some tubing and stuff and then make my pan/tilt head with a pulley system.

Yeah its too expensive for me to buy one. The lowest priced Jimmy Jib is like almost $3,000. Too much for me. So far I have spent $8.41. And thats on some cables and nuts and bolts that i didnt even need to use. :(. I might by a pan/tilt head from a surplus store cheap! But the feeling of having total control of the pan/tilt makes me feel a bit more comfortable. I have played around with the joystick on the jimmy jibs....they're still cool..

Dave Stewart November 17th, 2004 02:26 AM

how'd you keep the Canon in focus. I'm assuming you're not manually focusing and moving the jib around. I've got a xl1 on a jib and it goes out of focus if you pan or zoom.

James Emory November 17th, 2004 10:22 AM

I was using the wide angle lens with autofocus on. The focus will not adjust dramatically, causing softness, if there is a good contrast between the subject and the background. It will lock on to the dominant foreground, the subject, as it did and has always done for me. The wide angle lens is more forgiving than the long 16x lens. I never use the 16x when on the jib or steadicam. If you have the wide lens or can get one, try it on your jib and see if it works better. With the wide angle lens, you can focus wide, then leave the focus on manual and still get away with clear images while moving the camera because of that wide field of view.

Matthew de Jongh December 6th, 2004 10:14 AM

that jimmy jib looks great but way overkill for what i do.

i have the skycrane jr. and i get some very smooth shots.

i is a really simple design. kind of elegant without being too complicated.

most of the ones i looked like were built like toys, or they were super heavy and complicated looking, plus awfully expensive.

matthew

Rob Kroeger December 9th, 2004 06:17 PM

Yeah, thats whats holding me back. I use the one we have at the station alot, but whats keeping me back from buying one is that after you use a Jimmy Jib with a full Varizoom Pan\Tilt head, you'll use nothing less. I'd really love to have the chance to have a very large jib, and shoot a concert with it (Achieving the shots that you see on MTV's "Hard Rock Live")

Ahhh....Keep dreaming ;)

James Emory December 9th, 2004 09:14 PM

Rob. What do you mean by a "Jimmy Jib with a full Varizoom Pan\Tilt head"? All Jimmy Jib kits come with a Stanton head and electronics.

Martin Boulianne December 12th, 2004 07:33 PM

DIY
 
Has any one built their own jib??

Im planing to build one this spring..

Jean-Philippe Archibald December 12th, 2004 07:39 PM

Martin,

You sould look to Charles King's site http://www.homebuiltstabilizers.com

I have found here a great source of inspiration to build my Steadicam-like stabilizer, and I am sure that the jibs and cranes section will do the same for you

Michael Best December 16th, 2004 06:23 PM

James, that's a great looking rig, are you making some money with it? Look like it'd be tough to build barring the electronics?

James Emory December 16th, 2004 08:06 PM

Michael. The Jib Lite is very well built and I think very much worth the investment with the range of cameras that it can fly and the precision of the electronics and gears. Without the dolly, it's just a thousand more than an XL-2 camera and can perform all the moves as it's big brother, the Triangle, that costs about $15K-$20K fully loaded.

Rob Kroeger December 16th, 2004 08:12 PM

Quote: Rob. What do you mean by a "Jimmy Jib with a full Varizoom Pan\Tilt head"? All Jimmy Jib kits come with a Stanton head and electronics.

HaHa, My mistake James. At the time I was looking around at the EZFX Jib Arm, which as you know can be paired with the optional Varizoom head, I just got the two mixed up.

General Question, How much money do you think it costs Jimmy Jib to make, lets say, a Jimmy Jib 'Giant' Triangle Arm. ($9,435.00 List at their site) I could be wrong but I have a feeling its not a whole lot at all, compared to the list price.

Michael Best December 16th, 2004 08:22 PM

I know, I'm scouting some 4" extruded aluminum, got a friend that's an engineering genius. Not meant to be offensive to your investment, and I know it's more than worth it, but my curiousity is killing me, even if it can be done close to $3k - I want to get my hands dirty.

James Emory December 16th, 2004 08:45 PM

Well, it's not the length as much as it is material cost (aluminum), R&D testing/certification, extruding and painting, etc.. I was told that the di to extrude the tubes were expensive to make and that adds to the cost of a custom extrusion. How many times have you seen a product that is just so simple looking but costs quite a bit, like a car part, but you can't get what you need done without it, as simple as it is? Well, when you see how durable and precise these tube segments are, then you can appreciate them more. He told me that an engineer tests all of his products to make them safe and, of course, functional. They are all publicly under rated, spec wise, because they know there are those knuckleheads out there that are going to put more stress than it is officially rated for on the head so they have to cover themselves for liability. Who knows what the margin is for his cost to profit? I just know that I don't find myself having to constantly use workarounds to get the thing to perform because it's built so well. I do know that the bulk of the cost of the system is the electronics which is 5000.00 alone and the head is another 1000.00 without the gears I believe.

My jib will build to 6', 12' and 18' lengths. I tried to get Jim Stanton (the owner) to make me cables for 9' and 15' lengths but he wouldn't do it because there just wasn't enough demand for it and all of the necessary additional testing wouldn't be cost effective. At least he developed a larger head (not shown in my images) that I now have which allows for the larger cameras to be used. That new head will also facilitate a new dutch attachment that he now offers as well.

Just like a car, it's much cheaper to by the whole system at once than to piece it out over time because there is a considerable discount for the entire system purchase. I know, because I went round and round with them about that when I wanted to upgrade with some controls that I didn't initially get.

There are plenty of jib makers out there with great products, but I think that this is the best system for cost and performance.

Michael Best December 17th, 2004 06:47 AM

Well put and I have to agree. I would imagine the mere time input alone to research, find the materials, tools, etc would be daunting, frustrating, and probably never be done right. If time is
money I would guess the labor alone would be enough to buy
one and maybe a couple dv tapes. Happy Holidays.

Martin Boulianne December 18th, 2004 05:05 PM

Wow.....!
 
I just spent 6 hours looking at EVERYTHING on the http://www.homebuiltstabilizers.com/ web site... and i mean Everything...


I ate it all up. Love all the home made (Steadycam) rigs....
i've bean dreamin of building one for years.. but alwase thought it was to complicated....
now i see that i was on the right track all along!!

well my jib plans are complete... on paper... it will be very imposing... actualy better looking than a real jimmy jib...( my opinion)

ill try to ccan a few pages ...and post them...here.


Martin

Rob Kroeger December 22nd, 2004 03:26 PM

That would be awesome. I'll build one if it looks good ;) Im all about the looks of the jib to back up the performance. Thanks!


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