Another imovie 08 thread
 

Ok.... I bought and read the book... used the Visualhub method to convert from .tod to .mpg files.... but while trying to import to I movie 08 the recently converted .mpg files are all grey and will not import. I have followed the steps in the book carefully? Does it matter what the camera is set to shoot? what else could I be doing wrong? Thanks for any help.

J

If the file names are grayed-out the most likely problem is the files are not in folders that have the right names or not on a Disk Image.

I'll bet the folders have the wrong name because there's a typo in my book. I'm sending out updates tonight.

> Click Create and after the Disk Image is created it will be mounted on your Desktop.

> Make an alias of the Disk Image and leave it on your Desktop.

> Open the Disk Image and create a folder named MP_ROOT.

>In it, create a folder named 101PNV01.

I'm so sorry for the typo. I never saw it until someone sent me an email on Weds.

Thanks
 

That worked great... I had noticed the typo so tried a few different ways....

any way you also mention on step 16 changing the file date.. and refer to "see changing file dates" where does that refer too I searched to pdf and can find no other reference.

Thanks again for your book and work

J

With HD7 having 60GB -- which is likely to have been shot over many days -- changing the date of all files to one date didn't seem to make sense compared to the AVCHD camcorders that shoot to SD cards or DVDs.

So it was a cut-and-paste from my iMovie 08 eBook in the section SD cards.

Do you think it makes sense to change the date with the HD7?

No I suppose your right you would most likely have multiple days on the camera.

Thanks

Jason

With Sony offering 120GB -- it seems crazy that there is no universal time-stamp system for video. Even a big SD card might be used over the course of a week or more.

I've removed the sentence to avoid more confusion.

Thank you Jason for posting.

FOLKs don't be shy. If you find any problems with my eBooks -- send me feedback and I will fix it.

HD7 Workflow issues with Streamclip
 

Hi there everyone.

I have successfully been able to get iMovie 08 to recognise the converted TOD files when Visualhub converts them by following your guidance above Steve - nice workaround which confuses iMovie 08 into thinking you have a camera attached. However this doesn't work when I use MPEG streamclip; the mpeg files cannot be imported.

What is it that streamclip does differently which iMovie doesn't like I wonder?

I would prefer to be able to use streamclip for 2 reasons:
1) it seems faster in the conversion process from .TOD to .MPG-2, particularly because you can have 4 tasks running at once.
2) it is free

Is there anyway to use streamclip and why did you switch to recommending visualhub instead Steve?

I feel that I am so close to finding the solution.. it is agonizing..
Also, iMovie 08 takes AGES to encode its little thumbnails... I suppose it has to go through a whole stupid conversion process in itself. I wonder, any way to stop this from happening or to speed it up.. I have serious doubts about whether when you add up:

1) the time it takes to convert TOD to MPG
2) the time iMovie takes to create thumbnails

Whether it would just be quicker to use the firewire transfer method. Although, I suppose iMovie STILL has to create thumbnails? I haven't tested as I don't have the camera with me this weekend, I just have a bunch of TODs.

So to reiterate the question,

What is it that streamclip does differently which iMovie doesn't like I wonder?

And can we get streamclip MPEGS to be recognised by iMovie?


Cheers

Richard

MPEGStreamclip is NOT the right way to go with iM 08 because it decodes MPEG-2 long GOP (TOD) and recodes it into I-frame MPEG-2 (AIC). A total waste of time and potential loss of quality.

VisualHub does the smart thing -- it demuxes M2T (TOD) and remuxes it as Program Stream (MPG). Nothing is decompressed or recompressed. This trick takes advantage of the fact iM 08 can directly edit long GOP MPEG-2.

When iM 08 imports MPG files all it needs to do is convert MP2 audio to PCM audio and put V and A into a MOV wrapper. Then make the Thumbnail files.

This iM 08 ability is why it is so great for the HD7.

COntinuing problems importing TOD & MPEG2 into iMovie 08
 

Hi there again.

Thanks for the clarification Steve.

I managed to import a large proportion of my movies, however, at some point, the whole process just decided to die!!!

iMovie now says "An error occurred during import: There was a problem importing 1 of 1 clips from your camera. Please review the imported clips carefully." And it doens't import anything.

This is using the disk-image method of having iMovie recognise the mpeg2 files.

I am about to re-run visualhub on the original tod files one by one and see if I can then import them that way, but it's bloody annoying!!!

Have you seen this problem, and do you know a solution?

Before that I'll also try rebooting as that sometimes solves glitches.

Richard

By chance did you try to import more than 50 files with VH?

VH doesn't like to do this which is why I put the warning in my book.

If not -- it may be iM 08 acting up. Maybe it too has a limit which is why restart may help.

"An Error Occurred During Import"
 

I get this error, along with "there was a problem importing 1 of 1 clip from your camera" when I follow your process, Steve.

I tried restarting the computer, re-encoding to MPG using Visualhub, etc.

This may be something to do with the auto-import screen? But I can't import a directory of these mpg files as they are greyed out unless you have fooled iMovie to import from a "Camera" which is really a "fake" drive on an external Firewire.

Anyway, I am still stuck with my workflow and I could really use some help because right now I can't make any use of the videos I am shooting with my camera!!

What happens is iMovie seems to be importing the videos in its 'auto import' screen which opens when it launches. But the movies don't import and I get the error message.
Bizarrely, I can't import these movies into iMovie HD either?!! it says, preparing but then cuts out after a few seconds with no import happening. This is frustrating because the visual hub convert process is quick, but again it gives me unusable movies!!

Please; advice?

Cheers

Richard

1) I don't know if iM 06 can import MPG files -- so that may not tell us anything.

2) However, if iM 06 fails with no error message -- that isn't correct. It should say something like "unsupported format."

3) Can you play the MPG movies using the QT Player? If it fails too, then we can guess something is wrong with the files.

===

4) When iM 08 launches andfinds the fake camcorder -- you should see a bunch of clips waiting for import. Is this what you see?

5) You should be able to play any clip before you import. Can you play clips in the Import window?

===

I've forgotten -- these are FullHD clips correct?

And which version of OS X and which version of QT?

IM 06 fails with no error msg. The movie placeholder simply goes blank.

Yes I can play with QT, they are interlaced, but I guess imovie 08 fixes that.

Yes I see all the clips in the import screen. They just have errors on importing.

I can play the clip, but there is no sound.
HOWEVER!
Most clips show they are 18.23mins long. This is because they have been cut off for file size or something by the HD7, I imagine (not sure?). The only one which does play with sound in the Import window, is 2.18mins long, and it is also the only one which imports correctly. Bizarre!

They were actually recorded as SP. I have recorded other movies with Full HD and SP since, and had no problems, however... Could it be the length/size of these clips creates problems?

Mac os X 10.5.3
QT 7.4.5 (25) with the QT Mpeg software installed.

Thanks for ur help in advance. A puzzling bizarre problem! Especially when it originally did import some clips. And yes, these clips were the same size as the current ones which I am having problems with. About half of the clips came on, half aren't liked by imovie.

Are you saying your clips are longer that 18 minutes?

I suspect these clips cross the limits of FAT32 and so are auto-divided by the HD7. I suspect Mac software can't cope with these divided files.

Create a Playlist and input via FW so the HD7 has to re-join these files.

Using FAT32 for video is a horrible design flaw of all USB devices.

What does this mean for using the HD7 in future? If I want to shoot for longer than 18 minutes, I need to import using firewire? Or is there some other way of having the HD7 split files shorter so that iMovie can handle it? Or is iMovie incapable of handling files which the HD7 has split itself?

My GUESS is that ViualHub can't join clips that the HD7 has split.

I've heard that there are utilities that can join files, but I don't know if it works with the TOD files. So assuming split files can't be put together easily, I would advise not shooting more than about 15 minutes at a time. That is a very very long shot.

The good thing is that if you do shoot really long clips -- you likely won't have many clips. That makes it really EZ to create a PLAYLIST and capture via FireWire. But, remember to shoot 1440CBR. (You'll not really lose any detail.)

So you'll need to make a choice. If you plan to shoot long -- switch to 1440CBR.

I'll work on this and see if I can figure out an EZ solution.

Shooting longer clips on HD7
 

This just keeps getting more and more ridiculous... This technology is so poorly tested on Macs, it's scary.

We just leave the camera running when we are giving presentations, some of which can go for 40mins+... so having a camera whose software can't easily import these length sucks.

So this means that at this point, we have purchased Visualhub for no apparent reason, as it doesn't solve our problem, which is very long import times into iMovie. I'll search for a way to join the files, but this introduces increased complexity to the workflow which, for the kind of people that will be using this process eventually, is very unfortunate.

Any additional help to simplify this process would be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much for your input thus far, Steve; very valuable.

it looks like Visualhub has an option to join files, which means that for each "stretch" of split files, we will have to separately import, join them into 1, then import the next batch, which is an arduous process for a 3 day conference.

As I said, any other suggestions would be welcomed. this *may* mean that it's not quite so bad as I had originally thought though.

Richard,

I am really excited about this potentially new workflow too. I have this feeling that the AIC conversion is loosing quality, and even though a bit of a cludge, its a huge timesaver (and space saver) going via imovie 08.

I'm with you. I am shooting film look weddings with 2 hd7's as bcameras with dof adapters, and they are left on the whole time during the ceremony.

I am about to kit up with a whole bunch of timecode gear to lay down audio tc onto cams 2nd channels to combat multicam fun (since neither the hd200u or gz7 do tc) (which the auto audio gain not being able to be turned off on the hd7 messes with, but might be ok) but If I wasn't the easiest way to avoid tc issues is clap (not too much at wedding), then leave them running for as long as possible. Change bats, clap, leave on.. Plenty of hdd space, so makes for a good timecode workflow...

I was about to change my workflow from mpeg steamclip aic to imovie 08 for import to fcp, but

short clips is a dealbreaker.

1440 via firewire would be realtime yes? Whats the point in having a hdd disk system if you have to firewire in at realtime ...

Also Steve made a statement that since he's been going from firewire import to hdd instead, he stopped shooting 1440 and started with fullhd as better quality and mentions it scales nicely to 720 as its square pixel. Sounds great! So was just about to swap to fullhd shooting, but then just saw in this thread,

"But, remember to shoot 1440CBR. (You'll not really lose any detail.)"

So.. Steve... help us out there... How much detail are we talking. Not as much as we would loose from compressing aic with steamclip? Therefore stick with that and go 1440? You would be saying then that the combination of shooting a vbr instead of straight 27mbps and not using all of the image sensor, really doesn't change things much, but aic conversion (and subsequent mpeg conversion again for dvd output etc) would affect it far more?

I tried using visual hub's option to "stitch videos together", it did it, but a funky green frame in the front end of it. Again, viewable in import in imovie, but same error at end of import process, and then no files.

I was trying it only with files it had already converted, as it described stitching them together at the end, which is what it looked like doing.

I might try again using raw import, I am just running out of space to keep creating big dmg's on my macbook pro boot drive. Thats another deal breaker. I read of ppl using fat32 usb drives to do the imports with visual hub and imovie 08, (different camera I think), so not sure what the limitation of it needing to be on the boot drive is really about? Maybe I missed it in another thread or Steve can shed some light.

No way I can do a same day edit if I have to suck it all onto my laptop boot volume, I would have to replace my superdrive with another hdd, and even then I have no idea wether it would work being another internal drive, but not the "boot" volume...

One thing I cannot work yet is once I get into FCP, Steve mentions you wont have to render if you get your sequence and render settings right (xdcam ex or pro res), but mine still want to render... That might be one for another thread, but I'll mention it here in case someone else is using this new workflow with fcp and has had a similiar issue.
----
edit

for some reason this is working now unlimited rt in pro res... Maybe I only tried xdcam ex and the 1440 clip through it off? Thought I tested the 1920 and 1440... Both imported fine...
more testing I guess
-----

I also did have success in my first test importing 1440 in via the imovie process alongside fullhd... So can't remember if in the book or a thread, it was said you couldn't do the imovie import with 1440 (only 1920) as it was expecting a certain mpeg type... Well, it does work with 1440 on the one test that i did...

So maybe pending quality, I'll stick with 1440 so a have a fallback to firewire (yuk) for large files.... But I was so there with imovie, fullhd, and external drive for the dmg...

Process is not quite there yet... :)

If you want to stop creation of thumbnails as well, use activity monitor and force quit imovie 08 when it starts making them. I can confirm that works fine. If you then want to stop it picking up where it left off (eg, start making them again next time you start imovie, you need to move the files it created somewhere else). I for one currently am using imovie only for import into fcp, so after it starts making thumbnails, I force quit it, move the files to another folder, and then its a happy chappy next time I start it for another import.

Looks like some more testing... These things seem like the sort of issues that will get sorted out.

I applaud you Steve for bringing us HD7 campers more workflow options. I bought another one last week (getting hard to find), on the basis that the work you have done with this camera, gives me confidence I can use it as a bcam, get it matched, and use it far beyond the capabilities it was possibly intended for :)

Cheers,

Kieran

The point of HDD is that one can record 1-hour and 15-minutes. :) Remember how one always has to worry with miniDV tapes about running-out of tape. If you do a wedding, you'll like have only a couple of clips to put into a Playlist. Then have dinner while the HDD feeds your compute via FW. Of course, no matter what you do iMovie will take time to make thumbnails, :)

I have never been able to SEE any more detail in 1920x1080. Why? Because detail is chip limited with the HD7. It's about 700x700 no matter what format you record.

The reason I used FullHD is that originally I was using FCP to make HD DVDs. Why not, I reasoned, go from camera to HDTV without scaling. And, it was easy to mix with my HD1's 720p -- which I no longer have.

So if you need to shoot long clips, you're really not losing detail by shooting 1440CBR. You are shooting HDV. I imported into iMovie using the LARGE option because it saves a ton of space and results in Square Pixels.

The FCP workflow is described in Chapter 7 --- Indirect File Workflow.

Thanks Steve, I'll try that out, sounds like I'll just stick with 1440cbr unless this is overcome. Nice not to scale though...

I still really like the non-aic non-firewire route, so I will still look for a way around the size limit.

If you've elaborated on the disk image needing to be on boot volume, and not external thing anywhere else, or any other threads, that would be great, could give me a head start?

If you mean imovie to fcp and renders is covered in more detail in "Chapter 7 --- Indirect File Workflow", I just received the new appendix from you, but maybe this was an update to chapters in the book? If that is the case, could I get the new version please?

Cheers,

Kieran