According to Reseller Ratings, this is a well-known bait and switch outfit. You'll never get this camera from them (or anyone else) at this price.

I'm glad I brought this up. Everything you guys mentioned is good to know. I didn't pay much attention to the details, especially not the zoom figures they advertise.

Adam- these forum guys are sharp and never miss a beat!

Hi

Jvc has put a presentation online

http://www.jvc.com/presentations/eve...lid=MPEverioHD



Len

Excellent find!
Hmmm, it says "The 1920x1080i picture you get at the camera is maintained for recording, with no conversion to degrade the full native resolution."
Leads one to believe it's a full 1920X1080i chip! I sense some misleading advertising here- or were the incorrect specs released- further in the site it says, "That's native 1920x1080i resolution that is maintained all the way from the lens and CCD, to MPEG2 Transport Stream video with MPEG 1 Layer 2 audio, to output via HDMI, i.LINK or USB2.0. So the Full HD quality you get at the camera is exactly what you get in your recordings, with no conversion or loss of resolution."

Not sure what the final specs are- but that text is mighty impressive!!
One thing is for sure, it outputs interlaced video- I see no mention of a progressive mode or output.
Also interesting how it outputs via HDMI or Firewire or USB 2.0.

That website just made a mistake because they have the JVC GZ-MG37 listed for 452 dollars as well. The specs are accurate for that camcorder. It would have been amazing if JVC put a 32X zoom in the HD model but with a FUJINON lens, the price would have been a steal for 1800 dollars and JVC would have had no problem selling this camcorder at 2500 dollars with that zoom range.

the sensor is what i dont like about it

Well !?!
The wait and the silence are killing me. Now canon arrives with the HV20 and 24p, boy the lights might stay on late at JVC HQ.

It's all to late to change the sensors now. Although it has three they are tiny and quite low resolution.

The alternative is where Canon have gone. Large (for camera size) single high resolution 1/2.7" CMOS sensor (a sensor size larger than any other HD camera under XDCAM HD). Canon have the advantage of quite a lot of experience in CMOS sensor design stemming from their Digital SLR range where they make their own sensors too.

A 1/5" 16:9 sensor has only 36% the surface area of a 1/3" sensor, and only 64% of a 1/4".

3CCD badges might trick the consumer but not the semi-pro who will consider all sensor technicalities. Fortunately this camera is probably aimed squarely at consumers. I really pray JVC have something between this and the HD100 for NAB. Sony have 4-5 consumer HD cameras and 3 pro camcorders and 2 pro ENG cameras (HD XDCAM) now. JVC has 1 consumer, NO pro camcorders and 3 variants of one design in the Pro ENG format.

The attractive thing with this JVC is not the sensors (which are more of a worry) it is the HDD recording JVC started with Everio. I wonder when they will migrate this to SSD instead.

The wait is definitely killng me as well.
Too bad Canon didn't employ a hard drive in the HV20- would have been absolutely killer!!!!

It’s true that the CCDs should have been bigger but we cannot judge this camcorder based on that alone and we haven’t seen any footage so maybe the low light capabilities is very good. As far as manual controls go, this camcorder is more professional than both the HV20 and the HC7 and it’s been mentioned numerous times that it have a professional quality Fujinon lens.

Guy Barwood,
This camcorder is in the same category as the HC1 and the GS400 and they can easily be considered Prosumer camcorders.

But its a bizzare mix. The manual features won't appeal to a consumer and the sensor size will scare many pro users away (including me).

Just like the Z1 is soft in 1080i mode due to pixel shift (the HD100 is sharper in 720p), this camera, using pixel shifting will be quite soft as well. The lens can't fix this.

Fujinon lens will help but lets face it, Fujinon make cheap lens as well and this is definetly going to be one of them (just think about how much they can afford to spend on a lens in a camera of this level). Few are really impressed with the Fujinon stock lens on the HD100.

No one is going to even think about using this camera to shoot a wedding but it might score some POV/second camera use.

Plumb the HDMI output of the HV20 into a HDMI breakout box which itself is plugging into a (pretty fast/good) laptop and you have your wish !

Of course this solution is not as neat as the JVC but it will give you true 1920*1080 progressive which bypasses HDV compression.

On this site you will see a link to a video that shows the camcorder.
http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/en/n...eo+camera.html

Picture of a Microphone specifically made for it
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...7/victor23.jpg


From:
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...207/victor.htm

Hi

Looks great, Man I cant wait !!


LHR

Here is a tiny bit more information about this camcorder.
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english...070208/127547/

It’s kind of shocking to find out that the camcorder could have used xvYCC which is the same thing as x.v.color that is in the Sony HC7. Meaning unless the Panasonic HSC1u uses the xvYCC standard, the Sony HC7 will have the most colors out of any other camcorder but you would still need an HDMI 1.3 complaint TV to view the extra colors.

This is the most impressive information in that article:
“In the development in a bid to realize 1920 x 1080i recording, JVC started from entire revision of major parts, namely the camera block including the lens and prism as well as circuits capable of 1920 x 1080i video processing, among others.”

It will be a very well built camcorder and I look forward to the first reviews.

What do you think, should we add a dedicated forum for this thing in our Consumer HD Camcorders section?

Did anybody notice:
"minimum brightness 18 Lux (shutter:1/60, sensitivity up: AGC)"

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...-in-Japan-.htm

The HD1 all over again.

I don’t like people reading my mind. I was just thinking about that a couple of hours ago.

Definitely not liking the min lux rating......yikes!

The Japanese lux ratings is always a lot higher than the US lux ratings but I still think there is some sort of a misprint.

Hi

18 is better than 35 lux ( GR-hd1 or JY-HD10U ) and they really didn't look that bad in low light. I've seen some nice shots in the dark with them (35 lux) under street lights that looked real good . I'm crossing my fingers



LHR

While pixel shift does help detail we have to remember that when pixel shift was used with SD cameras, those cameras still started with the native resolution of the format of 720x480. The pixel shift just helped to make the image look more rich and detailed like it was being over sampled. It worked great for this purpose as an enhancer.

With HD however pixel shift is all of a sudden being used as a way to create pixels that are not really there and not just to enhance.

If pixel shift worked the way it is said to work with HD then we could have had SD cameras with 360x240 pixel chips using pixel shift and it would have looked great. I doubt any of us would ever want a SD camera with chips that small.

To me the fact that it records 1920x1080 pixels is almost totally useless since there is no way pixel shift can create that much detail. Not even a highend camera like the HVX200 can resolve enough lines to make a difference between 1280x1080, 1440x1080 or 1920x1080. Heck a lot of people even say the 720p and 1080p mode on the HVX200 looks about the same since both formats come from the same pixel shifted set of chips.

Finally JVC was clearly not thinking of it's pro users who have wanted a secondary backup B-roll camera to go with their HD100/HD200 series of cameras. While 1080i footage could be matched with 720p footage it would have been much better to at least have a true 720p mode on this camera. This now means that users of the 720p format still do not have a good option for a cheap B-roll camera.

Sorry but that's not entirely true. Most of those camcorders did *not* have native 720x480 chips, and indeed most of them used the Pixel Shift process in one or both axes in order to achieve that resolution.

Out of any number of such instances, perhaps the most famous examples are the Panasonic AG-EZ1, Canon XL1, GL1 and XL1S. All three chips in each of these camcorders used a CCD with only 250,000 pixels, which isn't nearly 720 x 480. They relied heavily on the Pixel Shift process in both horizontal and vertical axes just to get up to Standard Definition (and nobody made a big deal of it back then, either). Hope this helps,

Both the XL1 and the GL1 had a total of 270,000 pixels with an affective pixel count of 250,000 and I did complain at that time but I was only a teenager. The only time a lot of people started complaining about the pixel count is when the XL-H1 came out.

Look at the FX7 and the V1u, to me they both give you much better interlaced images outside than the Canon XH-A1 and its pixel count is much less than the XH-A1.

For all we know, their may in fact be a 720p mode in the JVC HD7 and we probably won’t find out until it’s almost released. JVC said there are extra features that they won’t mention yet. Even Sony didn’t want people to know that the V1u was capable of 24p when the V1e was announced.

I still have my XL1 sitting in my closet getting ready to be sold.

Yes it is true that the Canon SD cameras did use pixel shift to create pixels. These chips however still had a good amount of pixels on them. Something like 540x480 pixels. That is about the same ratio as 1440x1080 such as the chips used in the Canon HDV cameras which also use pixel shift. This 1.333 shift in the horizontal isn't as big of a step as trying to go from 1/2 the horizontal and 1/2 the vertical. The Canon SD cameras didn't have that many pixels to try to fill in and a 1.333 ratio fits the norm of the level that pixel shift helps. I think the BBC did a study that said at best pixel shift gives you 1.4x extra detail but no 2x. Of course this isn't a bad thing at all and I'm sure the JVC camera will look great. The only thing I question on it is how usefull a 1920x1080 recording mode is when there is very little chance that pixel shift will give you that much more detail over 1440x1080.

I think the problem is that not only was gain limited in 720p,, but that people don't retest cameras as they are refined over their manufacture life, and CCD's have had an dramatic boost in Lux performance over that time. But today we are used to lower lux rating than 18 lux for HD.

I would believe it is possible, because of the tiny 1/5 inch CCD's.


With Pixel shift

It depends on the quality of processing. The Panasonic GS75 (? or something like that) would have used it extremely for stills, and some comment was made on it's resolution. If done well, the resolution of most details could be processed up a lot more than the BBC study suggests (I imagine that it might have been based on average pixel shifting results on pro cameras, not special processing).

I imagine the single chip (cmos?) pro camera coming to NAB, will be much better, but this camera could indicate some of the things to look forward to. 720p50 progressive at 35mb/s might even be an possibility (no information, but an hope). The question now comes down to what after the HD250 in the three chip range?


There has been comment as to the technology not been upto H264 1080p. I think that their in house designs may not have been completed, but that Ambarella has had solutions for some time. The problems is that companies seem to have snubbed it, because it is not in house or in country. They seem to have tried their own designs, but the performance has not been their (do not know what quality the Panasonic is though).


We wonder why lots of new things don't get to the market, like Foveon X3 for Video cameras. The truth might be that they are not only at an premium, but suffer from the disadvantage that they are not in house, or in country, and not from established supplies to companies. That sort of culture in industry can be really restrictive for an new company to break in. Going to other countries and manufacturers is an potential solution.


Thanks

Wayne.

Japanese information page
http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/dvmain/gz-hd7/index.html

Flash Video
http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/everio/gz-hd7sp/
Click either the left graphic or the blue box and wait until the Flash finish loading. Once the guy finish talking, move your mouse around the house.

Please don't come in silver- black only!!!!!!!

I’ve noticed that about a week ago and I think its one of two possibilities. US will get one color while Japan will get the other but it’s most likely that you will be able to choose the color you want since both camcorders have the words Victor on them.
Maybe with this idea, JVC thinks they will get extra sales.


I’ve posted this already but I will post it again:
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/do...207/victor.htm
Here is a translated version:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...7%2Fvictor.htm

Well Canon offers their lower end DSLR's in both silver & black- guess which one is really popular with the pros?

(hint: silver- yuck!!!!)

B&H's new Spring 2007 Catalog details the HD7 at $1699.95 (page 235) and lists it in their "Prosumer" category.

Silver would not attract heat as good as black ....hence the reason for silver for thous who work outside or transport cameras from A to B using cars. :)

Hi

I got my BH cad. yesterday and saw it also . Not Long Now !!





LHR

Where is this coming from?

Everything I've seen from JVC implies this is full native 1920x1080 from sensors to disk.

As a GR-HD1 owner, I have a feeling this cam will disappoint in several areas, noise, color, low light, depth of field. Hope I'm wrong.

I’m sure in 4 years JVC have learned a lot since they made the HD1, so I expect this camcorder to be a whole lot better than the HD1.

"Everything I've seen from JVC implies this is full native 1920x1080 from sensors to disk."

Nothing I have seen even suggests this. It claims recording 1920x1080 but clearly details the sensor to have substantially less resolution than this and use pixel shift to try to have an educated guess to the extra detail.

Where, link?

JVC also learned how to lose a market niche they created.