<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Just talked on the phone with Ken Freed, very nice guy. He said FORGET the S/A button all together and do everything on the side with the exposure wheel. Adjust accordingly (it's still auto iris, but it has a bias to it) and then hold down the exposure "wheel" until you see an "L."

heath -->>>

This doesn't do anything on my HD1. You're saying that, while in full auto mode, if I press and hold the exposure control long enough I should get something other than the +/- 0 indicator?

Craig,

holding the exposure wheel will lock the exposure setting at whatever point it was when you started holding it down.

There are 10 steps in either direction (don't know what this corresponds to in f stops), and given the aperature bias in the AE, I assume it would adjust the iris before the shutter.

btw- you need to be in manual mode before accessing this feature

Yes, that's how it works for me. Heath said you hold down the exposure wheel until you see an "L". I never see an "L". I get the "+/- 0" which indicates exposure lock but that's it. I'm curious now if there are functional differences between the HD1 and HD10.

Heath, can you elaborate on what Ken told you to do with the exposure wheel? To me the most important thing is to be locked at 1/30th shuttter speed as I love that filmic look. But I've found that use of the EC wheel on the side is only available in the AE mode, which doesn't allow for locking the shutter.
On the ghosting you report, I haven't seen any of this, under what circumstances are you seeing it?

Thanks

yah, i have the hd1 and you can do the same thing, but you do lose control of shutter (which is still auto), and shutter is most important to me as well. you just press the exposure button so that the +0/-0 whatever appears on the left, and once its where you like, you hold in the exposure dial for a second or so and the L appears, but, the exposure is locked but the shutter speed is free to do whatever it pleases.....not good at all.

<<<-- Originally posted by Craig Jones : Yes, that's how it works for me. Heath said you hold down the exposure wheel until you see an "L". I never see an "L". I get the "+/- 0" which indicates exposure lock but that's it. I'm curious now if there are functional differences between the HD1 and HD10. -->>>

You adjust the +/- 0, then hold the Exposure button/wheel down for a couple of seconds until the L shows up next to the +/- 0. That locks it.

heath

<<<-- Originally posted by Joe Russ : yah, i have the hd1 and you can do the same thing, but you do lose control of shutter (which is still auto), and shutter is most important to me as well. you just press the exposure button so that the +0/-0 whatever appears on the left, and once its where you like, you hold in the exposure dial for a second or so and the L appears, but, the exposure is locked but the shutter speed is free to do whatever it pleases.....not good at all. -->>>

That wasn't happening to me on the HD10 after I locked it...I'll do more tests tonight to make sure. Sorry I can't get any clips up...

heath

yer saying on the hd10 the shutter speed can be set AND the exposure? cos on mine when i set the exposure the aperature or the shutter (whichever you had set before) flashes for a second and then disapears....and then its right back to whatever shutter speed it chooses on the fly

joe,

no you cannot select the shutter speed and the aperature at the same time. You can however, lock both of them in the positions they were by using the exposure lock.

As I noticed that both 1/30th and 1/60th are relatively "sticky" in that if you select either, they tend to stay there while the AE cycles throught the fstops, I belive that once you get ur desired settings (after u selected either 1/30th or 1/60th, use steve's method of pushing S/A repeatedly while adjusting lighting ), then you can lock both the shutter speed and fstop in that setting. refer to previous posts for more detail.

If you want higher shutter speeds, you can use the sports setting while adjusting and locking exposure.

A kind of tedious fix, but I believe all will be well.

This is getting more interesting. I've verified that the HD1 does show the L as Heath describes. My understanding was that the +/-0 indicator locked the exposure but I guess not.

Pressing the exposure contol enables it, up and down adjusts it, and L actual does (locks) it. Is that accurate?

ya craig, otherwise the +/- just biases over or under exposure within the AE.

you know, i've had the hardest time getting the AE to increase the shutter higher than 1/60. Doesn't really happen short of pointing the camera near the sun. I suppose if you put an 8x ND filter on this camera, you'd be pretty much assured of staying between 1/30th and 1/60th all the time.

anyone have any different experiences?

<<<-- Originally posted by Craig Jones : This is getting more interesting. I've verified that the HD1 does show the L as Heath describes. My understanding was that the +/-0 indicator locked the exposure but I guess not.

Pressing the exposure contol enables it, up and down adjusts it, and L actual does (locks) it. Is that accurate? -->>>

Yes, push the Exposure thing, adjust the image up or down, then hold the exposure thing (button, wheel, whatever) until it locks. I've done tests outside in the sun and it didn't move, both the Shutter and the Aperature.

Ken Freed of JVC told me to forget the S/A button. I trust him, he told me to use a PD-150 to shoot my buddy's wedding instead of the DV mode on the HD10.

heath

ND FILTERS NEEDED!
 

Thanx for the reminder, Michael, but I forgot to mention another thing Ken Freed said:

Buy ND filters!

heath

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Hyun : ya craig, otherwise the +/- just biases over or under exposure within the AE.

you know, i've had the hardest time getting the AE to increase the shutter higher than 1/60. Doesn't really happen short of pointing the camera near the sun. I suppose if you put an 8x ND filter on this camera, you'd be pretty much assured of staying between 1/30th and 1/60th all the time.

anyone have any different experiences? -->>>

Today is overcast for me and I can't do it without pointing it into the sun. On a bright, clear day it seems easier to do. Still, it likes 1/30 and 1/60.

Craig and Michael,

Are you both using HD1s? I'm curious, because Steve owns an HD1 and has an HD10 (for review) and says the 1/30 and 1/60 thing on the HD1 doesn't apply to the HD10 (see an earlier post on this thread for Steve's details). I wonder if locking the shutter doesn't work as well on the HD1.

heath

Mine is an HD1.

i would say it doesnt....because i can lock the exposure on mine and then the shutter will revert back to 1/30.....this may be fine for some, but i find 1/30 too blurry, i dont know why they didn't make 1/60 the default, thats more appropriate.......i guess they wanted to use the setting that let in more light....its just ruining the usefulness of the camera for me....oh well, controlling lighting now instead....luckily im using this for downconverting to anamorphic dvd resolution, not hd.

heres a color grad'd still shot from a short im doing for video class:

http://www.letterstoyou.com/still003.jpg

I also have an HD1,

heath, you can test ur HD10 too. select 1/30th and then cycle through pushing s/a repeatedly while pointing ur camera towards and away from the light. then select 1/60th and repeat. select 1/100th and repeat. does ur shutter change as ur light changes or do u cycle through fstops?

on mine and craig's HD1, the shutter tends to stay at 1/30th and 1/60th and moves down from 1/100th to 1/60th when the light decreases.

I believe the locking the shutter would be the same on both cameras.

Hmmmm, I'll see if my HD10 does that, too (re-adjusts to another shutter speed).

heath

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Hyun : I also have an HD1,

heath, you can test ur HD10 too. select 1/30th and then cycle through pushing s/a repeatedly while pointing ur camera towards and away from the light. then select 1/60th and repeat. select 1/100th and repeat. does ur shutter change as ur light changes or do u cycle through fstops?

on mine and craig's HD1, the shutter tends to stay at 1/30th and 1/60th and moves down from 1/100th to 1/60th when the light decreases.

I believe the locking the shutter would be the same on both cameras. -->>>

I'll give it a shot, but don't forget, Ken Freed said avoid the S/A button and go for the exposure wheel. He also said ND filters are a must, as most of my friends have been suggesting.

heath

joe,

ur shutter reverts to 1/30th after locking the exposure? are you sure about this? after pushing the exposure lock button using steve's method of cycling through s/a then locking? that doesn't seem right to me.

can you explain exactly what happens?

after looking at the test shots, im thinking about just trading up for the pro model....without the oversharpening the image looks as good as i would think it should. the sharpening creates all sorts of problems with color and detail, enhanced further by the heavy compression.

can some1 post more stills (hd10u) from the pro model?

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Hyun : joe,

ur shutter reverts to 1/30th after locking the exposure? are you sure about this? after pushing the exposure lock button using steve's method of cycling through s/a then locking? that doesn't seem right to me.

can you explain exactly what happens? -->>>

The HD10 doesn't move the Shutter and Aperature when the camera's exposure is locked.

heath

yep.......i just did the test...several times, and i set it to 1/60 with good lighting and kept changing til i was sure it was set and then set the exposure....locked it, didnt move the camera, still 1/60, as soon as i move it a little it drops to 1/30......i moved the light more into the center.....the picture didnt change but the shutter displayed as 1/30 again....and never went back to 1/60 til i unlocked the exposure.....i couldnt see a difference with my eye but maybe it was just adjusting too subtly for me to tell?

<<<-- Originally posted by Joe Russ : yep.......i just did the test...several times, and i set it to 1/60 with good lighting and kept changing til i was sure it was set and then set the exposure....locked it, didnt move the camera, still 1/60, as soon as i move it a little it drops to 1/30......i moved the light more into the center.....the picture didnt change but the shutter displayed as 1/30 again....and never went back to 1/60 til i unlocked the exposure.....i couldnt see a difference with my eye but maybe it was just adjusting too subtly for me to tell? -->>>

That's weird...I didn't have that problem...

heath

Joe,

are we talking about the same thing? you can't lock the exposure while it's ur in the S/A mode. you cycle throught the S/A to see if it's holding the shutter and aperture u want.

when you lock it using the exposure wheel (pushing it twice, once quckly, and once holding it) at the front of the camera, you have to be out of the S/A mode. In other words, if u did that and got the L, there would be nothing that would show 1/60th dropping to 1/30th. it would not be on the display. are u sure ur doing this right?

Try not using the S/A button and hit the exposure button, and adjust up or down until you're happy, then hold the exposure button until the "L" shows up. Skip the S/A button altogether.

heath

joe, i pulled this from a previous post:

"yah, i have the hd1 and you can do the same thing, but you do lose control of shutter (which is still auto), and shutter is most important to me as well. you just press the exposure button so that the +0/-0 whatever appears on the left, and once its where you like, you hold in the exposure dial for a second or so and the L appears, but, the exposure is locked but the shutter speed is free to do whatever it pleases.....not good at all."

i think you are a little confused by the terminology. exposure doesn't mean the aperature alone. it is affected by both the amount of light let in through the iris and the speed of the shutter.

Thus when you lock the exposure, you are locking BOTH the iris and shutter. you should not be able to see ur shutter speed changing either because it wouldn't be on the display during lock.

what exactly are you doing?

if you want to lock the shutter at 1/60th i found it's quite easy, cuz 1/60th is sticky and won't move from 1/60 until forced to when the amount of light drops below f2.0. it's 1/100 -1/125 that would be hard to lock the exposure on.

<<<-- I'm curious, because Steve owns an HD1 and has an HD10 (for review) and says the 1/30 and 1/60 thing on the HD1 doesn't apply to the HD10 -->>>

I don't own an HD1.

I can say that with an 8ND filter, the HD10 swings between 1/30th and 1/250th. Pointed at the sky it can will go to 1/250th at f16.

What Ken said will work. But you must check the shutter-speed as I decribed -- or you might lock in a high-shutter speed.

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : <<<-- I'm curious, because Steve owns an HD1 and has an HD10 (for review) and says the 1/30 and 1/60 thing on the HD1 doesn't apply to the HD10 -->>>

I don't own an HD1.

I can say that with an 8ND filter, the HD10 swings between 1/30th and 1/250th. Pointed at the sky it can will go to 1/250th at f16.

What Ken said will work. But you must check the shutter-speed as I decribed -- or you might lock in a high-shutter speed. -->>>

Sorry, I thought you said you did own and HD1...whoops.

So why did Ken tell me to ignore the S/A button?

heath

Steve,

Now would be a good time for that mini-HD guide! Esp. with the shutter/aperature/exposure controls and also how the heck to get the SDK17 to work, step-by-step. I'll purchase that guide in a New York minute!

heath

<<<-- So why did Ken tell me to ignore the S/A button?

heath -->>>

If you tell JVC you are concerned about fluctuations they'll say what Ken did.

If you say you're concerned about strobing, they'll say use SA.

The point is, you can solve only one concern at a time.

UNLESS you cycle through the SA series as I posted earlier. Then you can be relatively sure that you have locked the speed at what you want.

PS: I care about a FIXED 1/60th or 1/30th shutter-speed so I use SA.

Thanks.

heath

hey steve,

do you think i should get a 8x, 4x, and/or 2x ND filter? i figure i'll use it outdoors mostly. what's the advantage of blocking out more light with a higher density filter?

in reply to Michael Hyun:

<< Thus when you lock the exposure, you are locking BOTH the iris and shutter. you should not be able to see ur shutter speed changing either because it wouldn't be on the display during lock.

what exactly are you doing?

if you want to lock the shutter at 1/60th i found it's quite easy, cuz 1/60th is sticky and won't move from 1/60 until forced to when the amount of light drops below f2.0. it's 1/100 -1/125 that would be hard to lock the exposure on.
>>


i did just that, and apparantly its not locking the shutter, i set the camera in good lighting for 1/60, set the shutter to 1/60, set it back to nothing. then set the exposure and locked it, then checked the shutter quickly, its at 1/60th (i believe the aperature was f2.0)....now i move the camera so that the light source that was in the shot is in the center of the screen instead of the upper right. the shot doesnt appear to darken, but the shutter is now 1/30 and i believe the aperature went to f5.6.

ill do more thorough tests tomorrow. hope that cleared things up.

joe,

i think the problem is that you are unlocking the exposure button when you push the S/A to check on the shutter speed again.

you can't see what the shutter speed is if you lock the exposure.

as steve has already said, adjust ur lighting, cycle through s/a several times to make sure the desired settings are constant whist not changing the light source. then lock it.

then you can point the camera wherever you want having locked the shutter speed to whatever setting it was when you locked it.

again, you can't check to see what your settings are cuz you'll unlock it.

it seems fairly straighforward.
i hope this clears things up for you.

<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Hyun : joe,

you can't see what the shutter speed is if you lock the exposure.

as steve has already said, adjust ur lighting, cycle through s/a several times to make sure the desired settings are constant whist not changing the light source. then lock it.

again, you can't check to see what your settings are cuz you'll unlock it.

it seems fairly straighforward.
i hope this clears things up for you. -->>>

your saying contradictory things there. and your right, it is fairly straightforward. as far as i can tell (correct me if im wrong) i can "cycle" through the s/a and it wont change til it sets (it flashes for about a second or two before it takes)....which is what ive been doing....cycling through, not letting it set to the S or A. the only way i can see to fix the shutter with the exposure locked is to have even lighting through out, but thats crap.

i think we are just looking for a needle in a haystack in a barn that doesnt even exist. for now ill just use the sports mode for moving shots (with lots of light) and set the shutter for still shots.

if any1 has the hd10u pro model and can post stills id still like to see some more examples.