Shooting 1/30th shutter
Just got done reviewing a wedding I shot almost entirely at night. I tried the 1/30 shutter speed for the first time. I record in HDV 30p mode. It really makes a big difference with low light performance.
The wedding was entirely outdoors with no ambient lighting. I was really worried about shooting 1/30th since the stock preset is 1/60th. There was almost no image smear. I think I'll be shooting this way from now on. I still prefer 1/60th when lighting permits but dropping the shutter speed seems to work great when shooting in 30p mode! |
Glad that worked out for you Scott. Maybe you could post a clip? I've got a wedding this Friday, outdoors, at night as well..
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www.star-litevideo.com Laszlo |
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Shooting 30P with 1/30 shutter can buy you some low light sensitivity. But motion blur can become a problem with the slower shutter speed. This will be most obvious on the long end of the lens where subject movement is magnified. Ironically, close up work is where you need the extra sensitivity to compensate for the light loss due to zooming in.
-gb- |
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I don't see any issues with motion blur. Thanks, Jon |
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About the motion blur, I never see one, but much more experienced filmmakers said on this Forum we must use 60 shutter speed, but honestly I don't get it. I'm sure they right, but nobody ever really explained the reason, and show me the difference in reality. Laszlo |
I shoot 1/30th in 30p as standard practice. no problem with motion, and I've shot plenty of stuff moving, jibs, dollies, ect. no problem. I don't know who is telling you that you must shoot at 1/60th because they are wrong. its a matter of style.
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I hope they say something again about this on going question Laszlo |
I think the confusion is that you really only NEED to shoot at at least 1/60th if you intend to overcrank, but even that is debatable depending your aesthetic. Otherwise I don't think anyone would go on record as calling it a necessity.
Best. |
I think the opinions about 1/30 or 1/24 shutter have come from the purists who suggest that those shutter speeds are impossible on film cameras.
In that arguement 1/48 or 1/60 sec or 180 degree shutter speeds can be duplicated and anything longer would be a digital camera effect. Yet, I've found 1/30 shutter speeds look great with the HD-100. Comparing scenes with 1/60 and 1/30 of the same well lit material, the 1/30 looks just slightly softer and really wonderful. After all, most of us are using CRT's, plasmas and LCD's in NTSC to screen our final product. The same may not be true when projecting the material at 24 fps. So, I say, give it a go and let your eyes be the judge. Dave B |
There's a phenomenon in physics known as the nyquist frequency. The nyquist frequency is, as applied to a moving shutter camera, a shutter speed twice the frame rate. The reason for wanting to maintain a shutter speed no less than the nyquist frequency is because you begin to suffer motion artifacts at less than the nyquist. If you're not shooting things that move, especially rotating wheels, you shouldn't have a problem.
In practical usage, I'm sure you've seen scenes of wagon wheels, or something like that, that appear to rotate backwards. This is the effect of nyquist, where the camera catches still images of a rotating object and when the stills are reconstructed on a motion display, the wheel appears to turn backwards. |
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Others? |
I have produced several pieces shot in 1/24th and 1/30th due to low light conditions and I won't do it again (unless there are intended undercranking or style reasons).
Any shot with motion will inherently be "softer" because of the extra motion blur. But, if you ask me, it's softer in a bad way that risks making a shot look out of focus and I've noticed it bringing out the HDV compression with this camera a few times. The effect is especially amplified in pans, run & gun situations and any subject with fast motion. Often times in uncontrollably low-light situations the extra exposure to your shot is worth the tradeoff of adding motion blur. But personally for me, I will avoid 1/24 and 1/30 all together. With that said, it really comes down to what you think looks acceptable, use your own judgment I say. No one will tell you that you can't shoot in 1/30 or 1/24 because this industry by nature is a subjective one. |
I love wagon wheels going backward, way too cool.
I also like the look of the jvc with detail turned off. It's what I like, no right or wrong. Jon |
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Here are a few direct links to the samples. Note: The first sample was shot in the daylight at 1/60th which I prefer for it's sharper look. The last 3 clips are 1/30th. The entire wedding was shot in pitch black with no ambient lighting except my IDX X-3 LED light. The recording was originally shot 720/30p with motion smoothing on, 1/30 shutter & 9db gain. The samples are H264 encoded at 428x240 but will still give you an idea of how 1/30th looks at night. You need Quicktime 7.0 to view these clips. Please don't crucify my samples! NOTE!: YOU NEED TO "RIGHT-CLICK" & SAVE TARGET AS, TO YOUR HARD DISK TO VIEW FILES! Wedding Intro 1/60th http://blip.tv/file/get/Videoonsight...ngIntro489.mov Ceremony/Photos 1/30th http://blip.tv/file/get/Videoonsight...yPhotos964.mov First Dance 1/30th http://blip.tv/file/get/Videoonsight...stDance485.mov Cake Cutting 1/30th http://blip.tv/file/get/Videoonsight...Cutting260.mov |
Scott, Bleach Bypass is the "incorrect" way of developing a negative, it's skipping a step that is supposed to be performed, still, it's one very popular look. Rules are made to be broken, as long as yo know what you're doing. If 1/30 achieves the look that you want, so much better :)
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The backwards rotating wagon wheel I always believed to be the stroboscopic effect of seeing 24p telecined and displayed on a 60i device. -gb- |
I just shot both aerials and daylight outside shots for a new gated community in Naples. I used a combo of 1/30 and 1/60. I come from a video camera background and not cinema so I have a different perspective. This year it's about 23 year years since first working with saticon tube cams.
The thing I discovered when choosing shutter is that at 1/30, motion will blur if the moves are more than a really slow slow pan. Simple to remember, but not obvious in the field on the field monitor at 60p. It's not that it looks ruined when this happens but it's a strange look when you stop the move and it resolves into perfect focus. Yet these shots of very high end homes shot on a Triangle jib look really good. I add a Polarizer, ND and built in ND to get about 5.6 or f8 outside. Of course with the Aerials I shoot 1/60. I think the 1/30 shots are a step further removed from the video look than 1/60 is. The texture of the JVC shots and the grain give them a psuedo film effect. If there is very slow move, the slight blurring almost smooths out the shot removing all traces of steppiness you may notice in the progressive playback. It's a setting you have to experiment with and learn when to use it. Outside you will need an extra ND filter to avoid the dreaded diffraction effect of the lens when it's almost closed down. IMHO |
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http://jaschob.com/img/jvc.jpg |
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HD30 @ 30 Shutter
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Sam |
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PS shot a fashion show (runway) at 1/30 shutter. The footage looks great, again, more filmy than videoy, 1/30 shutter, detail on min. Plenty of room to get the lens at it's sweet spot and that makes all the difference. |
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