No, all that will do is convert the analog signal to HD-SDI. You still need a RAID of hard disks to be able to capture that.

To add to Barry's comment, that's where the real bucks come in, because you'll need a RAID of at least 8 drives, 10 is better. Plus the controller. On another forum, there is a guy with a 6 drive, 15k spin drive speed RAID, who says it's working great, but I'm personally a little frightened of the faster speed drive systems.

You can capture to other codecs that take up less space but you still need a desktop computer and currently it only works with Apple. With a Decklink card you can take a converted SDI output and capture to DVCPro HD which would work on normal harddrives. This would at least get rid of the need for a massive amount of expensive hard drives. You will still need a component to SDI converter.

No laptop out there has any type of SDI inputs so this will never work. Firewire is out of the question because of the encoder inside of the HD100. In order for a HDV signal to be sent via firewire it has to be encoded and the problem with the HD100 is that the encoder just cannot encode 50 or 60 frames per second. The best you will ever get from firewire and the HD100 is 24,25 or 30 fps.

On the PC side you could go with Prospect HD from Cineform. This again would still need a desktop but would allow you to capture almost uncompressed using the high quality Cineform codec and only taking up around as much as 20 MB/s which might still work on a fast normal hard drive.

The problem with the JVC encoder is that it costs 30,000 dollars. So with an HD-SDI converter and a wireless router you can import uncompressed video into a desktop have it encoded using the DVC Pro HD codec and store it on a regular harddrive ?

This might seem very green, but all I would need to capture/Edit 60p is a HD-SDI convertor and computer system that could say run Cinform ProspectHD?

Tommy I don't know about wireless, but there are component to cat 5 baluns (both ways) that let you extend your signal over 150 feet. Maybe Spot can expand on that. Wireless has some way to go to get enough bandwidth as far as I know. (I'm referring to uncompressed HD, not SD).

Harddisk recording - why not?
 

Hi Barry,

I jump in lately here:

You are pretty right in most points. But I would deny on saing its aint gonna happen. It simply depend on what type of shooting you are doing.

For ENG type work, ie. camera guys hunting for latest news stuff, the cable bound camera is definetly a problem.

For guys shooting feature films, commercials, documentaries I see nearly no problems with on-set harddisk recording. In fact, guys who used a 35mm camera so far and had the video preview option running are simply used to a cable bound camera system.

If you have power lines to feed some lamps on-set you have more than enough power to feed an on-set recording system too.

It all will not be a complex thing to handle, its taking place often when large feature HD shootings run. Looking at Viper, Origin, Arri D20 you will always live with the cable. No one is angry about it.

Obviously a 6,000 US$ HDV gear won't match a 100,000 US$ Varicam in results. But the cost saving involved here allows those who need the best possible output (low compression or uncompressed HD720p) to utilize on-set recording systems when applicable. If one needs green screen or blue screen I'd even recommend uncompressed recording when using a Varicam (we do so). The compression of Varicam and HD CAM is basically not better than keying DV25 signals, just larger images.

I believe that on-set recording systems with HDV gears will shake the market of indy movie making with some unexpected results.

The idea of using a deck is also very valid to me (we will check with JVC GY-HD100 and Panasonic AJ-HD1200ae in a few days).

I know so many poeple who shot commercials originally on 35mm and now don't hesitate to use a Canon XL1s with Mini35 for the same kind of projects. The budgets forced them to do this, and it keeps their profit in acceptable ranges. After all: Why not. If one want the ultimost quality - go on and do IMAX recordings. For all others HDV & on-set recording (btw. its also on-set editing then...) is a neat option.

Regards,
Axel

Hi Axel,

Hey, I have no problem whatsoever with being cabled to a computer -- that's the way I shoot nearly everything nowadays, running a firewire cable to DV Rack (or HDV Rack, as the case may be).

What I'm talking about is the computing hardware necessary to handle uncompressed output. I figure it's on the order of $20,000 of hardware to get a desktop computer that can handle it. Then you'll have to have some sort of cart to haul it around in, etc. In other words, like I said -- it isn't gonna happen, for the vast, vast majority of people.

A $1000 laptop running a $495 product like HDV Rack -- yes, that's within people's reach. But a $20,000 desktop with a RAID of hard disks -- not practical. Yes it can be done, but it's just not practical.

Hi Barry,

you are right for most of the intended customers on HDV camera systems, thats quite sure.

Obviously companies like Sony don't like the idea to use an HDV camera as uncompressed quality camera head, surpassing recording quality of high end gears.

But on the other hand exactly this will happen for serious low budget projects where quality of recording is an issue (like bluebox/greenbox keying etc.) and where even high end gears start to get problems.

Look at the Mini35 from P+S. How many poeple use them? How many of them own it? That vast majority here rents the device on demand. I believe the same will happen with adequately equipped recording systems.

Your estimate on 20,000 for the system is comfortable. I know it can be done cheaper (we work on that) and you will end up with something that is totally helpful on-set, because with it you have:

- uncompressed recording
- compressed recording with various codecs
- native HD monitoring
- editing
- keying
- compositing
- immediate backup
- optional RAID 3/5/6/50/60 security features
- no extra ingest sessions
- immediate best takes review and selection
- dailies reviewing "anywhere"
- delivery in various preview codecs and formats from WWW to DVD to HD
- all the other neat stuff a computer brings on-set

All this for 20,000? All this for 20,000!

Given a serious larger project, say a documentary of feature, you can save the complete amount during post production alone, which you will have to pay for the whole hardware.

More and more often I run into projects where the "G5 with Final Cut Pro HD" is part of the project budget and will be simply bought for on-set ingest/edit/review of DVC PRO HD or HDV material. Thats simply a fact. When they leave the set, the rough cut is online on their disks. In final image quality. That is the future of production and not just on low budget projects.

What would one pay per day for such a system? Something like 150 to 300 bucks? Like one rents the HDV for 100 and the P+S for another 100? How many days in post will be saved, time (and money) for ingest of material, selection of takes, matching CGI/VR elements with life shots, recapturing from EDL's etc. etc. etc.

It always depends on the projects. I have spoken to many film production houses recently, and not a single one was not interested in using this.

Clearly, it would be even better if it was cheap and small and still does uncompressed. Wait some time. There are thing to come that fit even the cable free workflow, higher quality expectations and potentially even the budgets.

Regards,
Axel