Split screen still present on new cameras in the US
 

I just came out of a Matrox AXIO semminar at my local dealer(Pro Audio & Video in Miami) were they had seven HD100s abailable for sale.
I played with the camera for about an hour and the first thing that I checked for was the split screen. I hate to say it but I could see it at 0 db with a solid color background and it gets worst with the increase db gain.
That said, it wouldn't stop me from buying the camera. I was monitoring on a true 1080 42" Plasma and with no gain I had to play with iris to get it to show. I even tried in front of the owner of the dealer and he had trouble seeing it until I raised the dbs. Non of the other videographer there saw it unless I tell them about the problem.
Another thing that I was concern about was the viewfinder been sharp enough to focus. I've got to say that it was easier for me to focus without the focus assist. It was actually a lot easyer to focus than the JVC DV300 and maybe a litlle easyer than the JVC 500.
I thing that the camera is as good as the DV500 in low light (I have the 1st D500 model that came out). As far as sharpness I think that it is as sharp as the DV500 looks in SD monitor, but on a 1080 plasma. If you have seen how soft a DV camera looks in very sharp plasma. The camera is sharp enough but not a WOW sharpness. I wasn't expecting WOW from a $5.5K camera package. I have paid more than that for a single still camera lens (hasselblad).
I am trying to sell both my JVC DV-300 and 500 to buy at least 2 of them. I do mostly Live and Stage events (mostly highend weddings) and I think that the camera would do good under the conditions that I work under. My customers understand that for a good image you need good lighting.
If money wasn't a problem I would get 3 of them right now.

Douglas Villalba
Miami, FL USA
http://www.dvtvproductions.com

The "white wall" shot -- as owners of the XL1 found -- presents a special case as covered under (4b or 4c) of my current "Rules of Thumb" to minimize SSE:

1) Do NOT shoot with the Iris at OPEN!

2) Do not use a gain level greater than +12dB. Better: keep gain to +6dB.

3) Manually White Balance at the gain you'll use.

4) Be sure the AE system reads-out:

a) F2, or greater, if your scene is Bright with High Contrast.

b) F2.8, or greater, if your scene is Dim with High Contrast or Bright with Low Contrast (such as a blank wall).

c) F4, or greater, if your scene is Dim with Low Contrast (such as a blank wall).

I'd like to know what exposure you were at.

JVC USA has also informed me the HD100 must be powered-up and allowed to warm-up before shooting as that will minimize the possibility of SSE.

1. Don't shoot at dusk and dawn
2. Don't shoot the sun
3. Don't shoot the moon
4. Don't shoot vehicle headlights
5. Don't shoot if it's too cold
6. Don't shoot if it's too hot
7. feel free to add

...ah, maybe we should create a list of when the camera COULD be used, it might be shorter :-)
And Chris could move the whole thread into the Area 51... it was just too tempting, I promise I will stay outa here now...:-)

Very constructive Jiri!

Steve is trying to give some tips&tricks to people that are trying to make the best of it, and all you can do is come up with this and disturb that?

Jiri, that's already trolling. Everybody who HAVE one of those cameras is trying to work the issues and get the best out of it. If you do not have one, do not think the camera is for you, please buy something else and leave us alone already!

Thanks michael, I could use a little help here :-)

Hey guys, I am with you. Yeah, it's a great camera and I am going to get one eventually too but from a practical point of view, the 'restrictions' that Steve is suggesting as suggestions are just not going to work. If this camera is to be used in day-to-day operations shooting docs and you name it everything under the sun, one cannot be restricted and always worried about the SSE to show up unexpectedly. The problem simply has to be resolved to the point where we don't have to worry about shooting wide open (that's why the lens has the ability) and having white walls on out sets (i.e. a documentary with people in some non-descript office), etc. I think that these 'rules' are just cute and dandy for now but long-term it's simply ridiculous to be subjected to them. Not in the real world. Sorry if I offended anyone but I am a shooter of more than 15 years and I might like to control my set but in reality on many projects it's simply not possible/practical/affordable/etc.

I most agree with Jiri without exaggerating. If I can't use the camera at a full range of f stops then the camera is not ready for professional work.
That said I most disagree with most of what people think that you should do to get the SSE to disappear.
When it showed on the brand new camera just out of the case with one of my batteries from my DV300 it showed at 0db at about 5.6-8 with a flat BG.
Again I'll say that I had to force it to do it and did not show in VF. That is the risk when filming under run and gun. If you have a monitor all you have to do is either under or over expose less than 1/2f to correct it. I don't find it to be a huge problem. Even thou I would wait to have fixed if I don't have to shoot HD to get it.
If I get a job for HD, I would buy today and make enough to buy it now. Let the people thinking about the problems wait to make extra money.

Douglas Villalba
Miami, FL USA
http://www.dvtvproductions.com

I highly recommend both: Steve's tips and Jiri's humour. And for myself it is clear: I do not buy an HD100, until there is an official statement of JVC, that split screen is no longer a problem.

Jiri, if I give you $5500, can you buy me a HD progressive camera with an exhangeable lens that can "!be used in day-to-day operations shooting docs and you name it everything under the sun" etc?

Can someone please tell me how to get the SSE appear on my camera? I have tried everything and I can't see it anywhere. I just got mine, so it could be one of the "good ones." =) Is there a test to see if you have SSE?

Duke

Point your camera at a wall (one color no texture) and as you monitor on a HD monitor (Plasma, HD LCD) slowly open and close the iris.
Start at 18db gain so you see what it looks like and then start reducing the gain to see how far down you can see it.

Douglas Villalba
Miami, FL USA
http://www.dvtvproductions.com

I only see it when I put the gain all the way up (high). IN MID its very difficult to see and in LOW there is nothing. But I owuldn't want to shoot at high gain anyway =)

did you try moving the iris ring to see if it went away?
I can find it if I look for it but, just as easy I can make it go away by making it a little darker or lighter with the aperture ring.
What are you using to monitor?

1. The lens also has a CLOSED reading -- I suppose you want to be able to shoot fully closed too.

2. When the lens is OPEN it means you don't have sufficient light. When you don't have sufficient light -- of course you can shoot -- but you should expect poor results with ANY camera.

3. Of course you can shoot a real office with white walls! You can't shoot a TEST of a BLANK wall. If you did with the Canon XL1 you got "contours" that initially scared everone. Made no real difference because it was an artifical condition.

HERE ARE MORE RULES:

A) As the iris opens fully -- more than F4, the HD100 lens becomes very slightly less sharp. So you want to stay in the range of F2.8 or smaller -- with the ideal being F4 or smaller.

B) As the iris closes down, "Diffraction Errors" caused by the small iris cause the image to be less sharp. Since the iris is a physical hole, it defracts red light first: then blue: then green. So you don't want to close down the lens too much or the colors become differentially less sharp. The F stop at which this begins to occur is a function of the CCD size. The smaller the CCD, the lower the point at which diffraction of red begins. With 1/3-inch CCDs, Red may start to have errors starting at F2.8. So you would like to not stop down below F4. Worst case, no smaller than F8, where even Green starts to defract.

SO YOU SHOULD SHOOT BETWEEN F2.8 AND F8. IDEALLY, YOU SHOULD ALWAYS SHOOT AT F4! And, indeed, many D.P.s decree an entire film be shot at one F-stop! This helps image continuity as well. How do they accomplish this? They add and subtract light to get the exposure to the correct one.

When you say you want to shoot without "worry" or "rules" you simply are in fantasy land. Cinematography is all about worry and rules -- it's called craft. That's why there are film schools.

And don't tell me you shoot now without worry. When you shoot a room lit by a candle -- do you simply ignore vertical smear -- or do you work to avoid the smear?

Perhaps it's because I see this as a CineAlta for $6000 that I expect to work very hard to get the results I want. If I just want to shoot video -- why shoot HD? Why shoot low-temporal rate HD? We've all got DV for these situations. :)

I know hd100 owners who have decided to keep the camera are doing the best with what they have-they've really been left with no other choice, if they want to have the camera as a resource. The fact of the matter is that if JVC knows what's good for business (and they do) they'll resolve the issue. I'm with Jiri, at times it appears that we are walking on eggshells with an issue that will eventually be fixed. All of mullens and dashwoods efforts though noble could all be in vane in two or three months once JVC releases a second line of HD100's without the SS. Mullen's recommendations do reduce the split screen, I agree. I've tried his and dashwoods suggestions and they do help to a adequate extent. Would I use the camera in the field for a corporate or broadcast gig? Not on your life. The issue is just too darn unpredictable and would jeopordize my relationship with a client or broadcaster if they ever asked me to turn over the raw footage gathered. Mullen-I hope JVC appreciates what you have done in protecting their interests-the book will make you a gazillion if the problem isn't fixed and you publish the solution. Dashwood, you are a genius at matching cameras, tweaking settings and your a credit to the profession. I am empathetic to each user, and wish that the SS wasn't an issue. But back to the point, it is simply a waste of time to try and tip toe around the unpredictability of the split screen. Before you go off and criticize remember this is a public forum, and if one believes that pointing out the camera's woes and sometimes even the absurdities of how desperately we want to believe and justify that our purchase has been a wise one - perhaps at the very least it will spare other users from experiencing the same woes that we have walked through. The intention with these truths are not to offend, but unfortunatly at the end of the day the truth is all we have, even if it's not pretty. Our talent as shooters can only be demonstrated clearly by the images we capture. The problem is that I've shot plenty of footage with the HD100 camera in well lit, controlled conditions, where I went to great lengths to ensure the split screen could be eliminated. I could post hours of footage and a few of you would still resist and doubt the cameras "limitations". What really kicks you in the butt is that the viewfinder and LCD are not always sufficient to observe the SS issue clearly. When you get back to your edit suite it stings when you see he SS pop up intermittently for seconds if not minutes at a time. As most of you know shooting with a monitor is not always an option in the field. Thanks to everyone for all the hard work put into the reducing the SS issue. But I'd rather just see the issue cleared up once and for all. Wouldn't it be more productive to somehow help JVC focus on creating a hardware upgrade that would remedy the SS once and for all. Mending the camera through menu settings is clearly much too limited. Let's all step back from the camera for a while and see what unfolds-even if it means getting a refund. If any JVC engineers or reps are reading this, please release some "official" explanation for the mishap, and when consumers can expect the camera to be free of the SS. It's clear that some loyalty towards the camera has been established, however it only adds insult to injury when a company chooses not to acknowledge the issue by correcting it sufficiently or even talking about what will be done in the future. Users are holding on to the hope that our makeshift methods will help, but all we really want is a camera that is free of a defect that effects our picture to such an extent. Heck I can even live with the shatty viewfinder, and mediocre lens. I don't need a "perfect experience", just one that doesn't sting by me walking on pins and needles while I'm working, or burn me when I look at the raw tape.

Spare me your critical feedback on my opinion. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way. I suggest any of the naysayers or doubters try working with footage where the right side of the screen is darker than the left and try making a living with that as your product.

Sorry Steve, I have to disagree with that statement. Part of what I love about HD is the increased resolution and feeling of being immersed in the actual location when watching it. It's the very first thing I noticed when watching true HD material a few years back when I got an HDTV. You are able to discern detail much as you would if you were actually there. Don't forget that there are a myriad of applications for film and video. I don't shoot motion picture film, never have, and never will. I work in the medium of video. Depending on what you do (ie: news gathering) film hasn't been used since the late 1970's. And HD is a welcome replacement for the aging NTSC system.

At NAB, they featured the HD100 in different configurations including a triax output in place of the tape drive, tethered to a live eng truck. This camera is NOT for film makers and cinematographers only. When being used aa an ENG camera, there will be many run and gun, uncontrolled, unscripted shooting situations and this is where the SSE issue could really be ugly, Or for that matter, at any live event where there is only ONE CHANCE to get the shot. Granted that many of these will be set up with additional lighting for optimal exposure but other situations call for making do with available lighting.

They also featured the camera in a full blown cinematography configuration at NAB. This camera is being marketed as a multi-purpose camera so it needs to function in all those purposes it's being marketed for.

I really want this camera to have the issues resolved because it will kick some serious booty when it does. And this is coming from a Canon owner!

regards,

-gb-

We all want it fixed, but I'm still assuming it won't be.

So I'm focusing on the HD100 as an alternative, or B roll, for CineAlta/Varicam users -- as well as those shooting Super 16 and 35mm. That's a very nice market. It's also a market that understands HOW to follow rules.

Plus, I've never seen a news crew in NYC that didn't use an on camera light and very often a second light. Sports are always well lit! In any case, HD news will need to be shot differently.

There is no reason to shoot weddings, this year, in HD. Next year there will be a whole new generation of HDV camcorders. Why not wait? And, if you can't -- shoot interlaced HD.

But. my real point is that there are two excellent Sony INTERLACE cameras. Why, if you simply want HD VIDEO, do these not meet your needs?

There is no reason to force a hammer into being a screwdriver!

I'm as frustrated about split screen as everyone else, but heck, the dang camera is paying for itself much quicker than I imagined it would. The picture looks great, clients are asking for it even though they don't "need" HD yet. I'm getting calls that I would not have gotten a month ago. So far the camera has been rented and used on a corporate shoot, and it's scheduled for use in several commercials locally because clients want a film (24P) /HD look for much less than film costs. Knowing what I know now, even if I was waiting for something like the HVX, I'd get this camera immediately because it will have paid for itself with additional work before the HVX even gets released.

To me it's the best we can get in this price range and if it's generating the work then what do we have to lose? The split screen never appears except in weird condiitions anyway so I've just avoided the weird conditions.

If the camera is going to make you money now then go for it. I hope it will even help pay for the better camera down the road.

Same here

Laszlo