Commercial shoot with the HD100
 

Hi everyone,
We are going to be shooting three national / international toy commercials with the hd 100 running 24P, mini 35 adapter and nice primes, and the Wafian HR-1 recorder here in a Hollywood soundstage May 1st through the 8th.

As our DIT and consultant we are using Paolo Ciccone (of the famous Paolo settings...http://www.paolociccone.com ), which has been nice enough to make himeself available to us during the shoot.

We have allready shot a full test of this setup last month with great results.
Has anyone finished a job utilizing the Wafian recorder in post using the 10 bit Prospect HD format?
What is the visual benefit of the 10 bit process?
We were having problems distinguishing between 8 and 10 bit footage on our SDI monitor...



Thanks.
Ben Jehoshua
Creative Director
Image Line Productions
www.imagelinemedia.com

Here's the rough test we shot last month
www.imagelinemedia.com/rescue06

Ben - You will see the benefit of the 10bit codec in post production if you decide to do any digital color grading or post effects.

Thanks
 

I hope so, although we ran a test with this setup and I was hard pressed to see the difference between 8 and 10 bits... I was wondering if it is worth it investing $2K in the Prospect HD format.

ben jehoshua
www.imagelinemedia.com

Difference between recording mediums
 

Hi everybody,
We are getting near to our shoot, I was wondering if anybody here had experience with the HDV RACK from serious magic, we've used it successfuly on our test, but sometimes it recorded one frame clips. We intend to use it on our set as video assist for our director, running a duplicated signal to four locations on the soundstage.

Ben Jehoshua
www.imagelinemedia.com

I've used it successfully. The only time I had incidents of single frames or small clips was when using a poor or perhaps damaged firewire cable. HDV Rack seems to be sensitive to cables and length so I can only advise using quality cables of the proper length.

After watching your test, your actress has that squeezy, cuddly, smile down so well it made me want to go get a hug from someone.

The picture looks great!

Well a great test of 8-bit/10-bit differences lies in graphics/fx or the mentioned above color correction.

The most simple example is this:

Make a full screen gradient from one solid color on one side to pure white or black on the other.

An 8-bit render will usually show stepping (banding) from one shade to another.

A 10-bit render will show a completely smooth transition for the entire picture.

Commercial Shoot
 

Thanks Warren! although the actress is actually my partner, Brad's wife... We're using kids for the actual commercial.
The picture looks really great on an uncompressed monitor preview.
We just shot a first tape for a documentary we're doing about a dance company in Hollywood here and Paolo's settings looks amazing both for that and the documentary.

Ben Jehoshua
www.imagelinemedia.com

8 vs 10 bit
 

Thanks, Mark, didn't think of doing the gradiant test, I will do it and check the output, although it's more difficult without having an NTSC preview to discern noticable banding, I believe.
Have you or anyone had experiece with the Prospect HD connected to the AJA board with real time preview?

Ben Jehoshua
www.imagelinemedia.com

Three Commercials on the HD100
 

Hi Everybody!
I'm happy to report that we have used and abused the HD100 with the Mini35 adapter and Cook lenses, going into the Wafian recorder. The footage turned out amazing, so much so that my client, while mouth still agape from the fact that the cut was done on the soundstage, kept asking me who the transfer guy was.
I will post some great footage tomorrow, hope it helps folks make up their mind about buying this camera.
Paolo Ciccone came down to LA and helped us graciously with DIT work and ran the Wafian recorder for us, it was a pleasure all around for everybody, and the picture, well, I still can't get over it.

Cheers,

Ben Jehoshua
Creative Director
Image Line Productions
www.imagelinemedia.com

There's practically no visible difference between 8 bit and 10 bit with no processing, because even with 8 bits the "steps" are close enough together that you just can't see the transitions between them. If you do any post processing, however, you run the risk of moving some of the "steps" further apart to the point where you can tell the difference, resulting in color banding.

If you've got the disk space and processing power to burn, just go ahead and record 10 bits. It can't hurt.

Ben, it was a blast to see the HD100 coupled with such amazing gear. Here is a picture of the camera with the Mini35 and the HUGE Cooke lens, held buy our camera operator and gear meister Mako: http://www.paolociccone.com/images/HD100-cooke.jpg

Can't wait to see the footage! That is quite the setup.

What is that, some sort of insane telephoto lens? The only lens I've ever seen that big is this 40x zoom I saw a sports broadcaster using on their high tight shot.

Stephan,

Them's the sort of big macho lenses you see on a 35mm movie set. And it sho do look like sumtun' on the 100.

I had a newspaper photographer friend tell me once, that he carried a huge telephoto lens off his belt because the ladies seemed to find a fella with that kind of lens attractive. Said he seldom used it, just for show. Something about relating the size of his lens to .........., uh, don't think I'll go there.

All seriousness aside though, sure wish my HD100 looked like that. I also can't wait to see some footage. Gotta know these guys actually used it.

Gary Morris McBeath
SaltAire Cinema Productions

Nice rig.
Looking forward to screen grabs and/or footage!

Steve

That lens is normally used for 35mm film features. I just had the time to "play" with it a little bit during wrap up. If I remember well the cost of the lens is around $25,000. It has, among other things, a spring-loaded slot in the middle of the body, to load nets. It was connected to the HD100 via the Mini35 but I believe you can use the RedrockMicro M2 as well.

I talked about this with Ben and Brad White, the director. We can't show the commercials until the air on TV. The toys are new. But we will get some screen grabs and possibly a couple of seconds of footage with just the actors, to show the nice depth of field.

I was well aware that it was a 35mm Cine lens, I was just hoping for a couple more specifics. You don't usually see lenses that long unless they're some kind of telephoto lens.

And I was curious about the baseplate and rod setup. In the picture, I can't quite see the JVC to rod mounting plate for the power cord to the P+S.

Some more pictures
 

Hey, here are some more pictures of the rig. The camera was mounted on a tilt plate for dutch shots. The plate was then locked to the crane.

This is a closeup of the camera. Hopefully you can see more details of the lens and the other gear.
http://www.paolociccone.com/images/hd100/IMG_1168.jpg

Opposite side with follow focus. Notice the Astro portable LCD display.
http://www.paolociccone.com/images/hd100/IMG_1204.jpg

The HD100 on the crane.
http://www.paolociccone.com/images/hd100/IMG_1206.jpg

Enjoy! :)

Cook Lens
 

The lens was actualy a wide to telephoto lens, instead of getting a bunch of prime lenses we went with one that can give us all of the shots we wanted.
I'll get the specs from our script notes and put them up for you guys.
I'll also have some footage up on our server by the next couple of days, as soon as I can clear it with my clients

Ben Jehoshua
www.imagelinemedia.com

HD100 Rig
 

Paolo,
The pictures of the camera with the rig look really like a Frankestein construction. Our client is extermely happy with the picture results, we hope to have another project in the making very soon.

Ben Jehoshua
www.imagelinemedia.com

Good lord Paolo. The AC didn't tell you that you guys were nuts?

I suppose a zoom on the Mini affords some convenience, but at what cost?

Totally wild guys !!!

Can't believe I'm seeing that rig.
How did the shots go though ?
Can you compare them to a high end camera solution ? (heh, I know you can and would and will and I also realise there's a damn good economic reason for using the JVC)

But out of interest what would you guys have used for a camera if the JVC wasn't an option ?

tia and cheers, Rob

Very cool Ben, this is pretty amazing stuff. I have a few seconds of footage taken with my camera when we wrapped up. Mako let me switch bodies and take a couple of minutes of footage with my own HD100. The scene was pretty dark pretty dark but I'll see if there is anything of value for public consideration. I just have to take care of some business piled up during my absence, I'll digitize the tape probably tomorrow.

The world is a bit topsy turvey these days. You're looking at a $6K camera surrounded by $50K worth of lens and accessories :-)

Paolo, what version was used?
 

Paolo,

Did you use V3 of your setting for these commercials?

Luis

Hi Luis.

yes, we did. As a matter of fact I developed the new settings during pre-lighting. We had a very colorful set with reds and pinks. I was watching the component signal on a Sony HD monitor and a pink blanket looked quite red. I tweaked the color matrix watching the result on the Vectorscope until I found something that matched the real-life colors. We then introduced skin tones and compensated a little bit. The result was TC V. 3.0. I like that V.3.0 has basically only one parameter different from V.2.0. The overall balance of colors is the same, just with a nice shift of the red toward magenta. It actually confirms some of the observations I had while working on V.2.0. I tried to reduce the "power" of the reds but I didn't figure out a way at that time.

I think it's the most faithful color matrix that I developed so far. We shot all the commercials with it with only scene with a hint of black stretch (black eyes on a black fuzzy puppy dog toy)

As I mentioned other times, with controlled lighting TrueColor blacks should render a very nicely contrasted picture that still carries a lot of information. Ben told me that in preliminary tests, he used V.2.0 and was able to kick the blacks around quite a bit. Even if they dark spots looked too dark at first, with color correction in the NLE he was able to adjust them. This means, as expected, that the color information is there, the black were not crushed.
V.3.0 delivers the same control except that it affects the mid tones a little less. In other words, with V.2.0 you have Master Black @ -2 and Black Stretch @ 1. In V.3.0 you get Master Black @ Normal and no black stretch. The way blacks are rendered is pretty much the same but the midtones are shifted less wit V.3.0. I believe it delivers a more dramatic picture.

Which camera as alternate
 

We probably would have used the Sony 900 HDCAM camera, or the Vericam. But we did an extensive test with a similar rig and the Wafian recorder and our client approved the look of the footage

Ben Jehoshua
www.imagelinemedia.com

Topsy
 

Hmmm, I think my AC actually said the rig was more than $125K when he put it all together in his head (Wafian alone is 15K)

Ben Jehoshua
www.imagelinemedia.com

We were all nuts, a pack of wild animals :) I think that at the end everyone in the crew was actually sold to the approach. $5K camera and several times over the amount in gear. The point here, IMHO, is that 720p is a very solid system that delivers professional quality. It was great to have the ability to capture the progressive signal at full 4:2:2. I'd love to test Chromakey with that. I did a quick and dirty test in using the HD100 in HDV (http://www.cruisercast.com) and I was pleasantly surprised about the quality.
My main gripe, since I was working on the Wafian all the time, is the interface of the Wafian software. On the side of acquisition it gives you a lot, including the option to capture 60p and convert it to 24fps on the fly. We didn't use it but it's nice.
The worse part is that there is basically no control for playback, no timeline that you could call such. No markers so taking series of takes leaves you "blind" for the playback. Renaming of the clips is a PITA, you actually have to go to the Windows explorer to do it. When you come back you get a big red Violation Error :(
In order to play back the clips for the director I had to write down, quickly, thee offsets for the beginning of the take and then eyeball it along the progress bar. Not fun, especially when the whole crew is waiting for you :)

There is really nothing too special about the Wafian that could not be replicated with a Powermac or a PC with the right acquisition hardware and software. I'm exploring the options. Ben told me that he saw something demostrated by Apple that would actually worrk on a laptop with an external converter box. Anybody has more details, specs or, dare I say photos?

You know what is the worst part of this Nate? I go back home so charged that I have to buy more gear. There goes all the money :)

Take care.

Quite right. Mako quoted just one of the tripod heads, the one that we used for shooting the few times the camera was not on the crane, at $10,000. Without the legs :)

On the other hand, he brought that kind of gear because he is used to shoot with 35mm cameras that can weight 10 times the weight of our little HD100.

Paolo,

Thanks for your reply and the thorougness of your explanation. Just to confirm, in addition of the Master Black and Black Stretch changes, Blue Gain was changed to 1 from 3, right?. I am asking you this since we are going to be shooting two music videos by the end of the month and this comming Friday we will be going over some tests, so I want to be sure I got everything cover from the parameters point of view.

Thanks my friend!

Luis

That is correct Luis. Good luck with your shoot.

Paolo,

I am very interested in getting the information regarding the DTE to a laptop, as you described in one of your postings. So, as soon as you get the info, could you pass it along, please?

I think the WAFIAN is nice, but too expensive for me, specially after your description of how difficult is to go over the recorded takes your director want you to show him/her immediately. I thought it had a better tagging of them so you can access them without any hassel...

Again, thanks.

Luis

Thanks for that, Ben.

cheers

New footage released from our commercials
 

Hi everybody,
As promised, here's a link to some of our footage both in TIFF files (2.6 megs) and WMVHD compression files.

www.imagelinemedia.com/hd100

Enjoy, and spread the word on this great camera!

Ben Jehoshua
www.imagelinemedia.com