Wow! When I visit Asia, most of the TVs have refresh rate of 100Hz to avoid flicker. That means each frame is repeated twice. Now this is not the same as shooting at 100fps, but it does mean the eye is being zapped 100 times/second.

I was watching an American detective show uses a lot of handheld camera work. Lot's of camera motion. It looked like it was shot on video!

I too believe that when the frame rate gets to 60fps (60p) [or maybe 50p] we really capture reality. And, I agree that as the rate goes to 24p, we move further away from reality. Clearly, at 24p we reach the ideal point. And, also I agree 30p is more real than 24p.

Buy why? And, is it true for everyone? Can other factors override rate? What happens if we turn on the Motion Filter and add a bit of weird blur?

And, what happens when we go slower than 24p. Do we enter "dream state?" (Yes -- I think.)

I'm curious, what role you think pulldown does. When we go to film we don't oulldown judder, yet when we watch 24p as video we do have "judder." So 24fps film really isn't exactly the same as 24p video.

24p is also much better for rotoscoping. I for one really hope Hollywood never goes to 60p for this reason alone. It would take 2.5 times longer to rotoscope a 60p source compared to a 24p source.

Also 24p has the advnatge of converting to 25p or 50i very well compared to 30p. This means better global distribution even if it never goes to film but does go straight to DVD.

Converting 30p to 25p would have the same problems as trying to convert 30p to 24p.

24p really is the perfect universal format.

24p to 24p
24p to 60i with pulldown
24p to 60p
24p to 25p with a 4% speed shift
24p to 50p with a 4% speed shift and a 2:2 pulldown.

You may not go to film but why would you want to limit yourself to a U.S/Japan market?

About the only thing you cannot get from 24p is 30p but why would you need to? As much as we might compain about the jutter with 24p and 3:2 pulldown the fact is that most people are used to it. Every Hollywood VHS since the 80's has been done like this. Every Hollywood DVD is like this. Most TV drama work is like this as well along with a lot of the higher end TV commercials. Seeing this jutter is something we have all been used to for a very long time.

I would really like to know what the percentage of stuff shot on 24p really is on Network TV.

These are both very good points, but you talk as if someone was attacking 24p. No one is. It's the other way around.

I suspect most of those making money with any low cost HD camcorder are not making product they plan to sell world-wide. Nor will it ever go to film. Nor, will it involve rotoscoping. It's a high-quality version of stuff they have to this point been making in SD -- likely for very local consumption -- often viewed in SD at 60i.

Isn't it obvious that anyone who is shooting product that NEEDS to be 24p will be smart enough to shoot 24p? Give folks some credit.

My point is a simple one -- everything doesn't have to be shot at 24p to get a very high quality look. Do you really want a "Come on Down" commercial to look like Gone With The Wind. Maybe? But, maybe 30p is better. And, 60p might be FAR BETTER. Especially for an off the road SUV commercial.

This is a really good point that I completely neglected, Thomas. Glad you made it.

I think most people accept that "film look" is catch phrase that means a lot of different things to different people, and that frame rate it but one of several factors contributing to it.

Steve, it sounds like your points are 1) that shooting 24p doesn't always mean watching 24p and 2) that not everyone needs the qualities and advantages that 24p imparts and given that 24p is currently a hassle for HD100 owners and that 30p can look perfectly pleasing, it may be a simpler choice for some users.

I think we all speak to our own set of imaginary readers when we post (at least I do). I guess that's the whole point of forums like this - for people to hear others views and figure out where they fit in.

Well said, Andy, and many thanks! Much appreciated,

Perfectly stated Andy!

Now where is Apple's 24p support!

PS1: Amazingly, this same topic is discussed at:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=67144


PS2 -- on the Avid list, given Avid won't have 24p support until next fall -- the delay is causing an interest in Avid Liquid 7.1. Avid editors are reporting they really like it -- "even though it's not an Avid."

Exactly, I saw a sample at the NAB very impressive as was the 17 inch powerbook they were using it on but apple needs to get on the ball and get this product to market.

They do, but what really bothers me too is the Avid problem. JVC stated that Avid would do it in the next maintence release, and they didn't either. What I want to know is does the Media Composer Only software capture the HD100 24P?