I've never seen a side by side greenscreen comparison that showed the HVX was any easier to get a good comp out of even if the HD-100 was going straight to tape.

In the only "sorta test" I've seen the HD-100 shows more hair detail:
http://www.bluesky-web.com/HDVHVX.htm

Walter writes:
"One thing I learned here is that as an acquisition format, HDV does not seem to suffer from some of the problems I keep reading about. It seems to key well, as good as any other format I have used. Had I used Keylight or any of the more sophisticated keying software, I would have not had any problems whatsoever so as I always say, a good key is about how it's shot and what you use to cut the key. ...I would not want to edit in native HDV... I don't capture it as native HDV but rather up sample it to a 4:2:2 color space and keep it as a 10 bit uncompressed Quick Time file using the software HDVxDV. Tape is cheap and when used in a proper workflow, as my testing shows it rivals what others claim is a more robust format. While I wouldn't doubt a camera with a bigger CCD and more electronics behind that CCD would do a better key, all these 1/3 inch prosumer cameras are very similar in size and electronics so they are more on a level playing ground regardless of specs that might sound more robust."

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I've owned both cameras and I would recommend the HD-100 over the HVX for keying and compositing due to the true 1280x720 resolution and it's MUCH better lower midtone noise. I'm assuming the conversion to Cineform's codec.

Try comping a dramatically lit HVX greenscreen shot. All that colored noise in the lower mids becomes a much bigger issue all of a sudden. Additionally, if you were really doing a lot a greenscreen you could capture the HD-100 via a AJA card at 4:2:2 at 1280x720 in either uncompressed or Cineform. You get HD-100 at 60P then also. The HVX simply can't compete with that.

The myth that the HVX is better for effects (other than 60P) is a just a myth. On paper it seems like it should be better, but that's where it ends.

I think the killer camera will be the HD-250. And then there's Red. (I'm saving my penny's). Add all that up and I see a bleak future for Panasonic's proprietary P2. Investing in it now and banking on future price reductions in P2 as if the rest of the camera world won't be innovating seems risky.

I own and use an HVX but P2 is not for everybody. My biggest issue with the workflow is the lack of a true master. You can get away with swapping cards, it is not that big a deal. The problem is that the workflow is expensive and despite what the fanboys say, it is risky to have footage stored on moving platters and there are still bugs with many workflows.


ash =o)

That's true and that's what RED will be doing too as I understand it. I'm not sure what the solution is.

there are bugs in the workflow, yes, but I'd say rotating storage is not so risky when you're storing the media on XServe RAIDs and backing that up with LTO-3 tapes, the blinking lights are so much cooler than tapes on a shelf :-)

Of course, that's out of the budget range of indie-filmmakers, and the energy usage is high, yet tapes also need a little bit of air conditioning and controlled humidity, but there's also a cheaper alternative to the hardware RAID-5 solutions: You can use RAID-1 mirrored sets of three drives with the third drive in each kept off site after the mirror set is built.

Tape is tried and true, I have to admit, compared to P2. Someday, however, we'll look back on this discussion fondly when we're shooting with 128 GB cards, editing with 12 TB disk arrays, and archiving off to holographic storage.

A friend shared this story with me once... he was digitizing for the purpose of archiving some of his old video footage that had been shot about fifteen years ago and some of the 3/4" tapes he tried to play had nothing on them... the magnetic patterns had vanished. Some of the other tapes barely played once and the oxide literally fell off the tape. This is what I think about when producers say, "I have an archive of my materials on videotape." The archive problem exists for both the videotape workflow and tapeless workflow. Besides recording things out to 35mm intermediate film stock, I don't know any motion picture archival medium which stands a chance to outlast the person who created the images.

Well of course glue and plastics technology has come a long way since then. I still have perfect 3/4s as well - it depends on how carefully you store them (humidity control etc).

David can you answer my previous question - can you not record all the formats of the HVX to hard disk which kind of makes the angst about P2 workflow a little off track?

Also I'd be interested to know - Hypothetically, if you only had $10K to spend what camera and accessories would you buy? Sorry you don't have the luxury of buying different cameras for different jobs or higher end cameras...

I think there IS a way to make the P2/tapeless workflow work quite well, it is just VERY VERY expensive.

While no master may be timeless, having one for a week, month, year, etc. is better than deleting when the project is done. For now, most post houses I know are actually backing up.... to data tape... ironic huh? FYI, I have miniDV tapes that are 10 years old and none have failed yet...



ash =o)

Right. I just did a transfer from CVHS to DVD for tapes that were 10 years old and have been played a lot. besides the normal degradation caused by the playback the images were there and I was able to transfer them just fine. Cheap, compact VHS from a low-end consumer camera.

I cannot believe that people are buying into this p2 stuff. Spend 8k on a camera and have only 16 minutes of hd per session to show for it. Even if the video was marginally better then the hdv cameras, the cost does not satisfy the needs. Its simply not practical or versatile for the average pro shooter.

IMHO, p2 and the hvx are more of a luxury item then a business tool. My humble opinion will change when p2 memory substantially goes up and prices substantially go down. Like that is going to happen any time soon.

No axe to grind here, I just really wonder how people use p2 as a money maker.

For the record, I am no fan boy. I would buy a sanyo brand camcorder if it fit the bill.