Why is the hd100 worth so little used?
 

I was going to switch out one my hd100's for a hd200 so I put it up on ebay.

Well the hd100 I put up did really bad, lol.

I mean, we are talking a mint hd100 with only 24 drum hours and a/b system. If I didn't put a reserve, I would have a $1800 loss from it's original price which I paid a few months ago. That would be fine and all if this particular hd100 was one of my work hoarses.

I wouldn't be asking this question if it were not for all the camcorders I have sold in the past that did extremely well. I sold a bunch of canon gl2's and xl2's last year and they sold for about 4/5 of what I paid brand new, almost 3 years before. I had way more hits on those auctions as well.

I am not upset, I am just a little surprised. I plan on keeping it now and getting my money out of it.

So, I am wondering if any of you guys have any clue as to why the prohd camcorders lose their value so quickly once they are used?

I think it might have to do with the fact that they are more commercial oriented and so, there is not as many users out there looking to buy one.

There is one UK store that has at least 5 used Hd100's for sale for over a grand less than new ones - again low mileage examples.

Andrew

You might have better luck listing it for sale rather than for auction. Meaning, try not using Ebay.

Jonathan, I feel your pain. I wanted to sell a few months ago but there was just too much competition from the used camcorder market and the newer Canons and JVC models. It's not just the HD100 either having resale value problems. Same thing goes to used XLH1 and HVX cameras. It's a good time to buy used stuff.

You could be right about that. I used ebay because I have had lots of success with it in the past. However, most of those items were strait up prosumer cams with auto focus, ois, etc.

I think the hd100 is just not a very good ebay item. Maybe the wrong demographic?

I might just try listing it and see if maybe it would have better luck. Like I said, I rather keep it than take a $1800+ hit.

I believe the reason is basically that JVC released the HD110 within the first year of releasing the HD100. For most users there really would be absolutely no difference in functionality, but some of us appreciate the little improvements, and of course consumerism trains us to think new is automatically better, and old has less value. This is a similar situation to Panasonic's release of the DVX100A within months of release of the DVX100, or Canon's XL1s update to the XL1.

I always try to predict the value in buying a piece of gear versus renting for the first 6 months of use. This mode of thinking has prevented me from purchasing quite a few items!

No doubt. It's almost like buying a car. I think the lesson to be learned is to buy new and use it till the thing falls apart. Then sale it! lol

At least then, you got your money out of it.

The reason they sell for so little on eBay is because it's a trendy place. That most people will never experience the subtle differences between an HD100 and HD110 means nothing because all they care about is whether the item is new. And if there is a newer model out, then the previous model is implied to be old.

As for why the HD100s are so cheap now, I can only venture a guess that industry people are so satisfied with the HD200 and HD250 that they will not compromise uncompressed output for the modest price difference to the lower model, and all HDxxx are too professional for prosumers.

The HDV workflow can be expensive and most people who will invest in it will pay the extra to get an HD200. I think this camcorder line came out too quickly and is suffering from having 'fake hd'. Somehow the public is under the impression that 1080i is superior to 720p and that 1080p is the 'real hd'.

I had planned to use my XL2 for another year and then migrate over to an HD100 when I could afford it all, but they have dropped in price so much that after selling my XL2 lot and buying a similar HD100 lot, I will have money in my pocket. How crazy is that?

You can also look at it the other way... cheap "long term rental". I like to own 90% of my gear and rent seldom. Sure you take a loss on purchase, but if you can use it for a long enough period of time without a re-purchase/upgrade, then it can be cheaper than actual rental. This is a lot easier $5k-$10k cameras of course, I'm not talking about real high ticket items.

Sure I'm taking a good size hit on our HD100 by selling it, but owning it has allowed me to work with the camera anytime I want, and in turn shoot better with it than had I rented. The way I see it I have a tangible item to sell now, I still saved money in the long run. It's that up front cost that hurts the most.

Jad,

I agree, the HD110 makes the HD100 seem old even though the differences between the two are minor. The flip lcd function is probably the most note worthy even though it is a feature I would probably never use. I rather save some $ and get a hd100.

Pretty much what you said, I feel the issue with auction sites such as ebay is the demographic is more consumer/prosumer users. My only guess, the hd100 is too hard core for faint of heart (even though I find it really easy and I am a complete newb!)

I can't see how the whole fake hd thing could be a problem. That is an issue that would hit jvc directly and from my understanding, they have sold A LOT of these camcorders.

I guess this is something I am going to have to start thinking about when I buy new camcorders especially pro grade stuff. One nice thing about camcorders such as the canons, they retained their value so well that I could plan on switching them out later without losing too much.


Yep, that is why I am going to have to keep my hd100 longer than I expected. There is just no way I am going to take that kind of hit on something I had paid top dollar a few months prior and with only 24 hours on the heads.

I think that it may also be due to JVC running their current promotions. If you're getting a brand new camera with a $1200 IDX battery package for just over $5000, in my mind, that makes the camera worth about $3800-$4000. If you're trying to sell ia used one for more than that or even a bit less than that, most people would rather have the new camera with the pro battery package than have a used one (older model) and have to buy the battery package seperately for about the same price. And if you have noticed, most people have gotten the IDX package or A/B package because using the stock batteries just aresn't practical, from the time they last to the camera being too front heavy.

Also, you can get factory refurbs with warranties for what, $3700?

Well, not in my case because I sold the anton bauer kit with the camcorder. In fact, the anton bauer kit in my auction was brand new, unopened.

I would have been fine with the price my auction ended with if it were not for the included a/b system.

So, then try to sell them seperately.

Yeah, I could sell it seperately. I got the a/b kit from the promo so I thought it should be sold with the hd100.

I am not too worried about it, I probably will just keep it and use it! I have already lost 100 bucks trying to sell it so it is just wasting money at this point.

Anyhow, thanks guys for all the tips.

It seems to me that JVC as a brand name just doesn't have the 2nd hand market value that other brands like Sony and Canon have. It has little to do with the quality of value of the product, just peoples inclinations to bigger brand names.

When I buy JVC products I accept up front that I will not expect to sell it second hand for anything what it is worth. Therefore I buy it planning to run it into the ground.

It's true, people care more about brands/trends than they do actual quality. With that in mind, I am going to start calling my hd100 "Al" from now on, lol.

The good thing is I think the JVC is a well built camera and suitable as a trusty companion for years to come. IMO, everything about the JVC is made for the long haul. Everything except maybe the EVF.

The only thing that might dampen it's future versatility is it's lack of speedy HD frame rates. No HD news or reality shows for the hd100, unless you have some kind of external analog digitizer.

I think this is part of the reason. How much video professionals or filmmakers shop on eBay or other 2bd hand markets? probably not that much. It might just not be the right demographic. on the other hand, for $1800 less, they have no warranty, battery life that has gone down already, etc... It might have the same value to you as when it was new, but for buyers it hasn't. They're not the first owner and can you really trust anyone that sells you anything 2nd hand? (sometimes you can, but sometimes you can't...)

I don't think it has anything really to do with the HD110. The differences just aren't big enough to make the HD100 "old". In every way that really matters, it's the same exact camera.

The market is now currently flooded with HD100's. Everybody's brother owns one it seems. The good news is that the camera won't become obsolete for quite a while. The downside is that the HD100 no longer has the "wow" factor since it's becoming an industry standard workhorse. It's almost as common as a PD-150, and that is why the value has dropped.

It's like the DVX100 when the "A" came out a year later with more features and much better audio capabilities in 24p modes. My friend couldn't sell his DVX100 in 2004 (two years old) because the A was so popular.

heath

use it or lose it?
 

Keep the camera mate and do something with it.

All these new HDV cameras are a revalation whether first generation or some of the more recent models.

I sometimes wish there was a little less focus on the the subtle nuances of these cameras as though these factors are somehow going to make a vast difference.

I admit that to the trained there are differences but to the average viewer you might as well be talking another language. I like to think of it as more of a means to an end rather than an end in itself.

G

Good point, too--stick with what you've got! It's a great camera, nonetheless.

heath

Thanks for all the advice.
 

I am going to keep the hd100. I actually do not feel that it is outdated at all.

That is why I am going to keep it :)

I hate being behind in the technology.

Either way, the hd100 has already paid for it's self several times over and it still has more dollars to earn. I was just thinking it would be fancy to have all hd200(s) instead of just the one. I rather keep it than take such a ridiculous loss.

From this thread, it sounds like it is common for prices to drop and so forth, even in such a small time frame.

I have to say though, other cameras such as the canons really do retain their value pretty well. I wish it was the same with the JVC's.

Glad to hear it mate.

Its going to carry on being a great 'B' camera.


With regard to the canons holding there value, that may be the case but I know which one i'd rather have.

G

As I look at the used market, I am amazed that so many sellers seem to think of equipment as some sort of investment in itself. I don't quite understand the expectation that a used camera would be valued at 75-95% of new.

Nothing personal, but, if the original poster's camera has "has already paid for it's self several times over..." then he has done well with it. Congrats.

When I look at purchasing used (and I buy perhaps half of my gear used) the first thing I think about is ***warranty***. This applies so much more to a camera than almost any piece of gear because of the delicacy of the tape transport. Even if your camera has only 25 drum hours on it, the transport could go out tomorrow, requiring the purchaser to spend hundreds and lose use of the camera for weeks.

Second is trust. If I'm on ebay, I trust less and am willing to spend less. On DVInfo classifieds, I trust more and am willing to spend more.

Then value. I guess I'm just cheap... but used equipment starts to make sense to me at 50-70% of discount retail. Why risk a private transaction with no returns and no warranty if there aren't substantial savings?

BTW, there's another Sony HVR-Z1 in the local portland craigslist today for $2500. Yet another lying weasel scam artist, no doubt. That scammer just reduced the value of your HD100 another little bit.